Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Petition to Allow Ursack in SEKI & Yosemite Wilderness

Click Here to Sign the Petition to Allow Ursack in SEKI and Yosemite NP

Now that the Ursack is officially certified by The Interagency GRIZZLY BEAR Committee, wilderness managers are running out of excuses for not allowing this product. Maybe this petition will help get it done this season, who knows. If you'd like the choice to use this product, please sign.

I signed that petition last week. I think it is time the local National Parks give it a serious consideration. Since it held up to the grizzly test, it seems like it should be considered.

The S29 is better and stronger material than the previous Ursacks. I used one last summer with the aluminum liner, and added a bell to the tie-down rope so I wouldn't sleep through any critters bothering it. I made SURE I watched the video on tying the knot: http://youtu.be/ztjPHKmaEv4?t=3m (That one shows using seam sealer which is no longer used.)

By the way, after watching this video: http://youtu.be/079s2CwGn0Q there is NO way I would use an Ursack without the aluminum liner. No way would my meals survive that kind of treatment. Everything would be well-mixed gorp!

And finally, the High Sierra Topix forum shows some pretty strong sentiments against Ursack. Interestingly, though, by only a small number of individuals. Regardless, the hardline opinions surprised me.

Yeah, I have metal liners for mine. I also hang it PCT-style for extra security. Its easier than counter-balancing and you don't need 2 sacks.

Its a legitimate debate issue. I have my doubts about this as a general solution for the masses, but its time to give it a try.

I can see the argument against the Ursack based on the fact that its still a bag. As I appreciate the history of the bear canister, an important part of its success is due to bears learning over time that it does not mean food. Many bears do not pay any attention to them. SO the bag with the aluminum lining may save the food (does it?) but it is not necessarily saving the bear. It seems that the bear would still get the message that bags mean food: you get to smell it, chew it, mangle it, etc. I can't see even Yogi learning the difference between an Ursack and and a Sea to Summit. Maybe, but it ought to at least be a consideration.

> the message that bags mean food: you get to smell it, chew it, mangle it, etc. I can't see even Yogi learning the difference between an Ursack and and a Sea to Summit

There is a considerable difference. From other bags, the bear gets a food reward. From Ursack it doesn't. For a bear, chewing on unyielding fabric is time wasted.


Edit, responding to this below: "The current situation without Ursacks has dozens of incidents each year."

Maybe with Ursacks, people would be more likely to carry them, reducing the bear incidents. Only a tentative approval and then watching over time will tell.

There are several theoretical issues that can't be known without trying in the real world, such as:

1. The technical effectiveness of the new S29 model, which passed the IGBC tests. Will it stand up to sustained effort by a determined bear over longer periods of time?

2. Will bears learn to give up chewing on them in a reasonable amount of time?

3. How will bears adapt to these over time? They may start to recognize them by the white color and thick rope.

4. Most importantly, in my humble opinion, will people learn to use them correctly and consistently? This is more of an education issue than a technical issue. I have my doubts.

The new Ursacks should be given a fair try and policy should be based on science supported by data. Will human-bear conflicts increase or not by allowing Ursacks? Specific instances should not be hyped to support an emotion-based agenda, but that's probably what will happen. The current situation without Ursacks has dozens of incidents each year. Recall this fact was used as justification for the JMT exit permit over Donohue.

Most problems are user errors. The only time I have lost food to a marmot...not a bear, was at Trail Camp when I forgot to put my breakfast foods back into my Ursack.

This is something that just happens from time to time...like not screwing down a Bear Vault or closing the cam locks on a Garcia or Bearikade. My guess is more food is lost this way to bears than bears compromising the canister.

I have never had a canister attacked...Garcia, Bear Vault, Ursack or Bearikade, let alone had one defeated by a bear.