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Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
#48257 08/30/16 12:07 PM
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Inyosar.com

I wish I would have found this article prior to my recent Dayhike on Mt Whitney. It is
made clear in this article that there is a common- sense tenet of mountain wisdom that says if you are hiking with a partner, STAY TOGETHER. We can choose to hike alone but when we choose to hike with others, we share in the risks and responsibilities and our common goal is for everyone to reach the trailhead together at the end of the day.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
gr8life0223 #48264 08/30/16 10:40 PM
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I'll post the text from that page.  It is important to read:

Quote:
Over the course of the past year, as Inyo County Search and Rescue has tackled challenges ranging from body recoveries in technical terrain to the coordination of a massive multi-agency search mission to the usual spate of long, cold, overnight medical emergencies at Trail Camp, our team has begun to realize its role not just in responding to disasters, but in working to prevent them.  Limited resources make it difficult for our small group to reach the wider public, but we hope that through this newsletter, pamphlets distributed at local visitor centers, and a new informational sign at the Mt. Whitney trailhead, we can begin to have an effect on the mentality of those who venture into our mountains.

As call after call makes its way through emergency dispatchers to our automated calling tree, it's easy to pick up on the pattern.  Overdue hiker, party separated, subject not seen since yesterday at 6am.  Overdue climber, separated from partner, last seen yesterday at sunset.  Patient with AMS, abandoned by party, needs assistance down from Trail Crest.  This is not a coincidence.  It's almost become a joke on our team:  Oh, there's a callout.  Let me guess.  They split up?

Mountaineering alone is a choice that anyone should be free to make, as long as they understand the risks and responsibilities associated with being on their own.  Yet traveling with others entails a different set of risks and responsibilities.  When you start a hike, climb, or ski with a group, you are accepting a share in the outcome of that adventure.  You have a duty to work together, to protect one another, and, in the event of an emergency, to help each other in any way you can.  There may be circumstances in which the only way you can help your partners is by temporarily leaving them.  But in the vast majority of cases, the safety of your group is greatly diminished when you split up.  If your partner is sick, stay with him until he feels better or help him descend.  If your partner is slower than you, adjust your pace.  Nothing -- not even the summit -- is more important than all of you reaching the trailhead together at the end of the day.

Everyone has heard the old acronym about what to do if you get lost: Stop, Think, Observe your surroundings, and make a Plan.  But there's an equally common-sense tenet of mountain wisdom that seems easier to forget:  if you're hiking with a partner, STAY TOGETHER.
Please spread the word.
-- Julia Runcie, 2014 Team Captain

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Steve C #48277 09/01/16 06:34 AM
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Thank you Steve for doing that. I just read it again.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Steve C #48306 09/02/16 11:47 PM
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This is a good reminder. I stopped going on group hikes with a local group because they refused to follow these guidelines.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
NoUglyOneYet #48311 09/04/16 06:50 AM
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Sometimes even Sierra Club trip leaders don't follow these guidelines - been there, seen it happen.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
gr8life0223 #48312 09/04/16 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: gr8life0223
Inyosar.com

I wish I would have found this article prior to my recent Dayhike on Mt Whitney. It is
made clear in this article that there is a common- sense tenet of mountain wisdom that says if you are hiking with a partner, STAY TOGETHER. We can choose to hike alone but when we choose to hike with others, we share in the risks and responsibilities and our common goal is for everyone to reach the trailhead together at the end of the day.


Generally speaking, sure, it's good rule of thumb to stick together - but that shouldn't be a substitute for common sense.

Weird things can happen in groups. It's important to think for yourself.

Example: If the rest of the hikers in John Lee's party had stuck together with him, it's likely some of them would have died, too.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
mike2016 #48314 09/04/16 12:03 PM
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From another recent post which included SAR's instructions on 'communication' they stated ' if you must separate, be very clear about how, when, and where to meet, and what the expectations are.'

I agree that we have to think for ourselves and can't always stay together in every situation but there is a safe way of separating when hiking with a partner and or a group. Simply walking off on others without communication of any kind is not acceptable to me.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
gr8life0223 #48322 09/05/16 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: gr8life0223
From another recent post which included SAR's instructions on 'communication' they stated ' if you must separate, be very clear about how, when, and where to meet, and what the expectations are.'

I agree that we have to think for ourselves and can't always stay together in every situation but there is a safe way of separating when hiking with a partner and or a group. Simply walking off on others without communication of any kind is not acceptable to me.


Interesting, I met a guy at Trail Camp with a walkie talkie. He said he could reach his dad down at the trailhead with it.

I was surprised because of all the granite in between, but if walkie talkies DO work down to the trailhead, groups probably should carry a pair in case they separate.

I lost count of all the people I met last week whose groups had split up.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
mike2016 #48323 09/05/16 02:00 PM
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Our group of 5 had several radios pre-programmed on the same frequency. My buddy purchased a pair of these and then had others purchase one of their own so everyone had one: https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-Dual-Radio-Black/dp/B007H4VT7A

With the whip antenna, you could make a connection from the trailhead all the way to at least the 99 switchbacks, and we were talking from the summit back down to trail camp. I think when we were halfway back to Lone Pine from the Portal, we could still communicate with a pair that hadn't made it all the way to the Portal yet. Not bad for $25 per radio.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
over1812 #48326 09/05/16 08:50 PM
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1812: How different are those from the frequently-sold FRS radios? The FRS are pretty useless without line-of-sight areas.

The ad you gave doesn't show any antennas. How long is the whip antenna you mentioned?

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Steve C #48328 09/05/16 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
1812: How different are those from the frequently-sold FRS radios? The FRS are pretty useless without line-of-sight areas.

The ad you gave doesn't show any antennas. How long is the whip antenna you mentioned?


License-free FRS radios have permanently attached, size limited antennas and are limited to 0.5 watts. The BaoFeng radios cannot be used legally on the FRS bands. There are some FRS like radios that can be operated as GMRS, a commercial service with a $75 license, but with the antenna limits of FRS if they also work on FRS bands. I don't know of any non-licensed radio bands that the radios can be legally operated on.

These radios may have more RF power, more powerful batteries and better construction than "bubble pack" FRS radios. They must be programmed before use. Google "FCC part 90 radios" to learn more.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Steve C #48329 09/05/16 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C

The ad you gave doesn't show any antennas. How long is the whip antenna you mentioned?


The picture in the ad has the typically supplied compact antenna on the radio. It can be replaced.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
over1812 #48340 09/06/16 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: over1812
Our group of 5 had several radios pre-programmed on the same frequency. My buddy purchased a pair of these and then had others purchase one of their own so everyone had one: https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-Dual-Radio-Black/dp/B007H4VT7A

With the whip antenna, you could make a connection from the trailhead all the way to at least the 99 switchbacks, and we were talking from the summit back down to trail camp. I think when we were halfway back to Lone Pine from the Portal, we could still communicate with a pair that hadn't made it all the way to the Portal yet. Not bad for $25 per radio.


Lol, as a matter of fact I started to tell the guy I met about my BaoFeng (and other) HTs, but he told me didn't know anything about walkie talkies.

His were off-the-shelf wallyworld models.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
mike2016 #48342 09/07/16 01:05 AM
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As mentioned above, to legally operate that type of radio you need to have your amateur radio license. The technician licence test is pretty easy to pass and only costs like 10 or 15 bucks total for 5 years. With the introduction of the cheap chinese handheld radios it puts another tool in the quiver that may save you or help save someone else out in the middle of no-where.

I've got one of the ubiquitous Bao-Feng HT radios. Replace the stock rubber duck antenna with something like the dual band Diamond SRJ77CA and they are pretty decent little rigs. I usually pack mine in my backpack when I'm hiking and program with any repeater that I *might* be able to hit in the area. I also try to program in any NPS and USFS frequencies to monitor.

The other thing to remember, if it is a TRUE EMERGENCY then you can attempt to contact help on any frequency without repercussions from operating on a frequency that you are not licensed for.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
psykokid #48343 09/07/16 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: psykokid
As mentioned above, to legally operate that type of radio you need to have your amateur radio license. The technician licence test is pretty easy to pass and only costs like 10 or 15 bucks total for 5 years. With the introduction of the cheap chinese handheld radios it puts another tool in the quiver that may save you or help save someone else out in the middle of no-where.

I've got one of the ubiquitous Bao-Feng HT radios. Replace the stock rubber duck antenna with something like the dual band Diamond SRJ77CA and they are pretty decent little rigs. I usually pack mine in my backpack when I'm hiking and program with any repeater that I *might* be able to hit in the area. I also try to program in any NPS and USFS frequencies to monitor.

The other thing to remember, if it is a TRUE EMERGENCY then you can attempt to contact help on any frequency without repercussions from operating on a frequency that you are not licensed for.


psykokid, would you please start up a new thread on HT radio.
This is the best performance/price value for back-country comms that I've seen. I've used the cheap walkie-talkies extensively, and they are good for heading off problems. This tech can get you in touch with SAR authorities on a 2-way basis in an emergency.

We'll ask Steve C to put it in the "How not to die on Whitney " area.

That said, please please please keep the signal to noise ratio as pure as possible. Needless chatter destroys the wilderness experience of others, so keep messaging to the minimum.


Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII
Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
wagga #48345 09/07/16 06:11 AM
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You said: "This tech can get you in touch with SAR authorities on a 2-way basis in an emergency." Excuse me, but this is an irresponsible suggestion.

The SAR frequencies (VHF) are for SAR use only, not for calling for help. The Inyo Sheriff also operates VHF frequencies, but not for non-law enforcement use.

It is always a good idea to stay off SAR frequencies, since it can cause confusion and disruption to SAR operational activity. Ditto for law enforcement frequencies or any other government channel. The FCC would take a very dim view of illegal use of those channels. You can listen, but not transmit.

There are plenty of other means of communication, already mentioned in this forum.

Last edited by Bob West; 09/07/16 06:17 AM.
Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
gr8life0223 #48346 09/07/16 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: gr8life0223
Inyosar.com

I wish I would have found this article prior to my recent Dayhike on Mt Whitney. It is
made clear in this article that there is a common- sense tenet of mountain wisdom that says if you are hiking with a partner, STAY TOGETHER. We can choose to hike alone but when we choose to hike with others, we share in the risks and responsibilities and our common goal is for everyone to reach the trailhead together at the end of the day.


I'm glad the Whitney Zone fund donated to Inyo SAR instead of the Alabama Hills trail. Both good choices, but safety is paramount and SAR folks put it on the line for us.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Steve C #48376 09/10/16 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
1812: How different are those from the frequently-sold FRS radios? The FRS are pretty useless without line-of-sight areas.

The ad you gave doesn't show any antennas. How long is the whip antenna you mentioned?


I want to say about 12". I'll ask my buddy to update this thread when he gets the chance, he's the one with the license and knew about what things he could do with the radios on the FRS band, how to program them, etc.

This all started when I first brought out my little cheap 2-way radios last year for our Mt. San Gorgonio hike that had about a 2-3 mile line of sight range. He liked the idea so much that he got these nicer radios for this year's Whitney hike.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
wagga #48377 09/10/16 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga

That said, please please please keep the signal to noise ratio as pure as possible. Needless chatter destroys the wilderness experience of others, so keep messaging to the minimum.


Yes please! It can definitely get annoying with too much chatter. I kept my radio on the lowest volume I could hear with it attached to my pack strap high up on my chest so it would be the least obtrusive to other hikers. Definitely let people in your party know that radio communication should be used sparingly if at all needed.

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
over1812 #48544 10/05/16 09:28 PM
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We used the BaoFeng UV-5R Dual Band Two Way Radios with an 8" whip antenna. I programmed the radios with the open source chirp software. It's much easier to save a configuration and then upload it to the radios. Additionally I set a digital coded squelch (privacy code) to keep the channel quiet from interference or cross talk. Also I programmed the NOAA channels. As others have stated you need a license to operate on the FRS or GMRS. These radios are 5watts in power so you would need a GMRS license.


http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Download

Re: Your duty when hiking with others - Inyo SAR 2014 Newsletter
Sandoval #48548 10/08/16 12:33 AM
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This is pretty much exactly what I do smile UV5R with a slightly upgraded dual band antenna using CHIRP to program.

It should be pointed out that while owning a HH like the UV5R and using it to listen is perfectly legal, transmitting with it on unauthorized frequencies/powers is not (unless in an emergency). For example, if one wanted to use the FRS frequencies and changed the output power down to 0.5W, it would (more or less) be the same as using a "bubble pack"/"walki-talki". You would stand to benefit from the upgraded antenna and scanning abilities. Scanning on most budget HH's is poor at best going through 1 frequency a second and not very effective. Best to just be monitoring a single frequency. Operating in this fashion would still not be legal according to the FCC, but at the same time it would not be very "noticeable" smirk

VHF/UHF radios are generally still very limited to line-of-sight, no matter what the power or size of the antenna, so it would probably be safer just to stick with a decent quality FRS radio set. They are also way more convenient to use for a layperson who only needs basic communication abilities.

As was stated earlier, it is not a good idea to step on emergency frequencies. Although you may be reporting an actual emergency, the net needs order to operate effectively. You would likely be redirected to another frequency anyhow.

I would highly encourage anyone who is interested in emergency radio communications to look into getting their technician's license. You will learn a ton of useful info and could potentially be an asset to someone else in need.

Posting some useful info:

1 CHIRP example setup
2 A UV5R with extended battery pack and antenna next to a standard walki-talki
3 FRS Chart
4 Some area freqs. More details can be found from frequency listings and HAM clubs.

Sorry abut the formatting, new to this forum and not about to fix it right now smile














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