Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Communication on the Mountain?

Hey all,
I'm part of 10 person group is training to do a one day summit in September. We are thick into our training, and some questions have come up around if / how our group might split up. We did the (steep!) Bear Canyon route up Baldy this past weekend, and ended up splitting into 3 groups with slightly different paces (we summited within an hour of one another, though).

We have varying opinions on whether splitting up on Whitney is a bad idea, esp if people get altitude issues and need to turn back.

Is using walkie talkies on the mountain possible? Or are there any communication solutions people have used?

Would love some input on splitting up vs. sticking with the slower groups, or other group norms people have found successful.

Thanks!

Any hiking group is only as strong as its weakest member. It is never a good idea to split up, unless each of the split-off groups are led by a strong leader with a good, well understood plan that is understood by all concerned. Stay together if at all possible, so that if the weaker members have problems the stronger ones can help them.

Never, never leave weaker hikers on their own! This often leads to SAR call-outs and sometimes tragedy.

Comms in the mountains are difficult. Don't count on "walky-talkys" to work well in our mountains. The Delorme devices work well, but are expensive and not always reliable. Even local SAR teams often have radio communication problems, and they have the best equipment.

Totally agree with Bob.

10 is a big group, and especially with mixed experience, you can almost guarantee someone in that group will have some type of trouble, AMS or otherwise, as you learned elsewhere.

I have had absolutely reliable people in groups who have made inexplicable errors of various types. Staying together reduces the risks.

When going solo, or offtrail, or out of this country, I rent a sat phone. Works well up high, in the open, and even sometimes unexpectedly in low areas. In canyons or up against walls, you might not have satellite in view to get reception. Have I had dead spots in reception in the Sierra? Plenty of times. Only choice then is to move to a clear area, or wait for a satellite to re-position. They are low earth systems, so they do move around and 20 minutes can make a big difference. Taken to ludicrous extreme, for your group of 10, you would rent 10. No one would do that.

Those FRS two-way radios are pretty much line-of-site communicators. So if you understand that, they might be useful. But don't be surprised when they don't work.

Bob West is correct about groups splitting up. Very often, the serious accidents are due to a lone hiker splitting off from a group, especially on the descent. It is just plain stupid to hike ahead of the slowest hiker on the way down. It often discourages the sower hiker, which can lead to hiking even slower, and possibly lead to their making bad decisions.

If you are a larger group, it would be best if you all stayed together at least up to Trail Camp. That's pretty much the half-way point. Between there and Trail Crest the radios would work ok, and there are a few places along the crest where they would work.

It is usually around Trail Camp that people begin to suffer from Altitude Sickness, so that would be a good place to evaluate your member's prospects, and make some important decisions about splitting up, etc.

Thanks all, really appreciate the insights.

Wondering if you have guidance about what an ideal pace target would be. We've heard from others that you want to go slower so you can acclimate to the altitude, but don't really have a sense of how much "slower" that should be.

Right now we are averaging about 30-35min / mile pace on steep climbs.

Our date is Sept 26, so with weather and light it's our intention to start super early (like 1-2am)

Thanks again!

Altitude acclimatization does NOT occur in the hours you are hiking up the mountain!! For people who have altitude issues, spending two nights at 8,000 to 10,000 elevation is what helps. If you haven't done that, then it's pretty much a crap shoot on your hike, and you just go up and then see who is affected and who isn't.

You should hike at whatever is a comfortable pace for everyone. That is why keeping it steady (not fast!) up to Trail Camp is a particularly good idea. Anyone with energy to spare and not affected too much by the altitude can go hard the last half, or even better the last quarter -- from Trail Crest to the summit.

Don't rely on walkie talkies on the trail.

As the leader, you are also the sweeper. Make sure you are the last one down, and everyone is accounted for before stepping off the trail.

Safety first, last, and always.

Your pace will be what it is for you, today. An average pace does not help the slowest member. You cannot push unwilling or unable flesh up the mountain.

One 'rule of thumb' is that if you cannot talk and breath for climbing at the same time, then you are going too fast.

I always find it amazing that people rush up two flight of stairs and then start huffing and puffing. If they start at the right pace (slower) and breathing ( faster) beginning with the first step, then they can do 20 flights and keep going.

Agree with Bob West. Splitting up is only okay if you split up into groups, preferably with an experienced person in each group.

Further, I'm a firm believer in the sweeps system, where you have the leader (someone who is highly experienced/very fit) run sweeps. Sweeps is when you have someone at the back of the last group to make sure no one is left behind.The sweeps system has some major safety advantages.

If you pair this with the buddy/group-system, then any person who might get hurt or sick will have someone to stay with them or go get help from the leader at the back.

This way the leader at the rear ensures that no one gets left on the mountain.

With such a big group, and with your desire to find a good pace, it might behoove ou break people into groups based on pace, come up with a meet-up plan (say stop for a break every 1.5 hours and wait for everyone to catch up), maybe (as Steve suggests) until Trail Camp, at that point you might set your pace groups free until the summit. At this point (TC-Summit) walkies might serve you reasonably well.