Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Bear Canisters??? Do We Really Need Bear Canisters???

I'll tell that I went from a rented Garcia heavy plastic bear cannister to a Bearikde composite material. At least 3 lbs in weight reduction with the same volume.My only problem with a bear cannister is where to strap it down on my new smaller light weight pack.It don't fit inside and they tend to roll off even when strapped down.I guess I need a good Navy man to teach me how to tie some knotts.I just might get that Navy man to carry it for me cuz he and Laura know no pain when it comes to epic hikes.

I can't find ANY Gary Larson cartoons on-line. He and his publishers don't allow it.

And here's a good reason: Barnes & Noble Marketplace: Complete Far Side (R) : Limited Edition, 1272 pages.   $1,979.99  

Edit: And I see td made a liar out of me!

we need bigger bear cannisters!

Nawwwww, QS, I am sure that there is nothing personal (agree with Ken) Just a generic remark. Froggie (the resident Navy rep in this house) makes comments like that all the time when the opportunity arises.

Explain? The SUBJECT was discussing the weight and bulk of a canister. I wasn't commenting on anyone personally, just posting MY opinion (that is still allowed isn't it?) on the subject of weight and bulk of a bear canister.

Is it REALLY that big of a deal? What does the heaviest canister weigh? Seriously, if the weight of the heaviest modern, approved canister is too much for someone to carry on their planned trip, than I (DUG, me, myself, I) am of the opinion that maybe it's time to look at saving weight some where else.

I have talked to backpackers bitching about the canister who were carrying four liters of water - up the main trail. I bet the can would feel a lot lighter if they dumped some of the water and planned their trip a little better.

Maybe not - but that's what I (again, this is MY opinion, which if I'm not mistaken I'm still allowed to have - Steve?? ) think.

Sorry to confuse or upset anyone. If and when I do ever comment towards someone "personally" it would normally be via email and/or PM and there would be no question of my intent. (which I TRIED to do with QS, but his box is FULL) Actually, if there was ever any doubt as to the meaning of my post a PM would be the better way to clear it up - again, just my opinion, your mileage my vary, to each his own, etc, etc.......................................................DUG

Really? I don't remember making enough comments on the subject to be known for it. I need to search some of my old material.

To be honest - I prefer to carry as little as possible. The MT trail can be day hiked with well under 10 pounds (water included) and overnight trips don't require much more if the weather is right. I'll happily carry the canister if the rules say I must or leave it if it's not required. It's not enough weight to make me care one way or another.

I guess if I do a search I'll find several hundred posts where I said the same thing before.

Anyone ever notice that when someone says something like "Not to be an A$$ or anything" the FIRST thought out of people's minds is that someone is TRYING to be an a$$? I mean, my gawd, if I was TRYING, I wouldn't go to the trouble of saying I wasn't trying........................................................DUG

Rod - I just put chit where ever it fits man. I'll dig up a pic of me on a 48 hour Sierra crossing that I used a small Camelbak and a fannypack for - the sleeping bag got strapped in front to my waist. When my brother showed pics of the trip to a hiking buddy the guy commented that I didn't look like I knew was I was doing. Maybe not, but I did 59 miles in 44 hours including a Whitney summit so I must have got something right................................DUG

The "NAVY" way to get the bear canister up the mountain would involve several thousand Power Point slides put together by a group of junior officers, many planning meetings, a POA&M (plan of action and milestones), a couple contracts that would be over time and over budget before being canceled with nothing to show for it and much, much more. In the end the top brass would be uptight and upset until some crusty ole Chief just straps the canister to his back and hauls it up in it's original configuration. Nothing would be learned of all of this and the process would repeat the very next time a canister needed to go up a mountain.

Of course that's just my opinion based on what I've seen, smelt, felt and lived through in my 25+ years of active Naval service (which sadly ends next year)..................................................DUG

Is this what you meant, Rod?

My canister weighs FIVE times what my pack does. (And I could probably fit three of my packs inside it, even though it fits inside the pack. ...huh???) So yes, the weight of that thing IS an issue. ...but I'm not complaining! Wouldn't want to stir up a hornet's nest.

Sometime, I'll post my story about chasing the bear away from my pack -- after he dragged it away.

It probably came in response to part of the very first post:


CaT

Where is the approved list? Order #04-10-02 for the year 2010 says "Containers designed to prevent access by bears", no specific brand of canister. However, if you go over NAP and head down the Rock Creek Drainage and enter Sequoia NP, you will need a SEKI approved canister, Ursack is not on their approved list...if you can find that list you are a better person than me. When I looked in August the link was broken. Ursack advised their product was not approved for this area; therefore, I took my Bearikade.

As for above the tree line, bears are not an issue. The Ursack gets hung off a wall, so the marmots can't get to it. I've used it that way many times, including Trail Camp in May 2007, and have not had any problems. I would be comfortable using a nylon stuff sack at Trail Camp but it's not designed to prevent access by bears; therefore, not in compliance.

maybe straying from the topic a little...maybe not. I don't mind the weight of the canister so much, but I do think they could design the shape a little better.

Instead of the pure cylindrical design, if one side was slightly concave it would conform to the shape of the back a little better.

I should point out that I don't stand my bear vault up in my pack, rather it is in the lowest part of my pack laying down.

The shape would probably not have as much strength as a proper cylinder, but it would certainly relieve pressure points.

I may experiement with heating my bear vault and reshaping it a little bit.

> I may experiement with heating my bear vault and reshaping it a little bit.

Try heating a plastic water bottle first. You might be surprised how quickly it shrinks! I doubt you would have a good result heating the BearVault.

I put my BV inside the pack vertically, but first I fan-fold my Thermarest Neoair mattress so it is between my back and the canister. Add clothing around the canister, then ...inflate the air mattress.   No more pressure points!

I called the Wilderness Permit office in Bishop at 760-873-2483 and talked to a nice woman named Cindy. I asked her about approved bear containers for the Whitney Zone. She said, and I quote: "For overnight permits, the Whitney Zone requires hard bear canisters". I asked her that if I had an overnight permit, but only went for the day, would I be required to carry a hard bear canister. She said yes.

She also pointed me to a site for approved containers. This may help....or may not.

Seki Allowed Food Storage Containers

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care either way as I've already purchased my containers and agree with DUG on less water, etc. Not a chance I'm spending more money on something that may weigh less.......well at least not until I sit on mine and break it.

And Lynn and DUG, my box is empty now......

p.s. What's going to happen when something REALLY controversial actually shows up on this site......like smaller burgers?

I dislike bearcans as much as anyone, but they do serve mult purposes. Here is another -if you are out a long time and if you wash yourself or clothes, add items, water, soap if you have it, shake well. Manually powered washing machine.

When I did Onion V to Whitney in August, I saw the hanging scale at the Whitney Portal timber thingy on my way down. My pack was 33 lbs. Of that the empty BearVault was 2.5 lbs. That's only 7.5% of the total.It just seems worse because most of the time it is densely packed with too much food. I always have some left over.

hmmm, that would be an expensive experiment...wouldn't it...

i'll keep the wandering topic going a little here...hope we don't need SAR

I'll be heading up on Sun for a day hike on Thurs. Orignally I wasn't planning on using a bear cannister, thinking a cooler or any container for the food would be ok as long as it was in the bear locker. (And since I don't own one, just another thing to add to the list of equipment upgrades needed) After reading about folks not securing the bear lockers, and the bears and other varmits becoming a little more 'assertive' in their quest for food, I'll be renting a bear cannister from the hostel/store to keep my food a little safer while I'm camping and day hiking. I would hate to return to camp after my first light hike on Monday and find all my vittles gone based on a bear locker that someone else left open. Hopefully, if something like that happens, I would be able to find the bear cannister in the general area with my vittles still inside.

FYI..The rental cost from the protal store/hostel is $2.00 per night.

??? I've never put mine IN the pack. I just tie it on somewhere, usually in the back. I thought that's what all those loop things were for. I would need to use my bigger pack to get it inside......................................DUG

You must be related to me. My wife says that is exactly how I talk.... I know with my kids, I will tell them something like "just pull the thingy out to the trash". They will ask "what"? and I'll just say it louder!

Smaller burgers???....Now that's just crazy talk