Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion So, you want to climb the Mountaineer's Route in winter?

This was first posted in 2005 by Bob R, and it deserves to be posted again. So here it is...
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So, you want to climb the Mountaineer's Route in winter?

I always cringe when I read such questions as "I plan to do the Mountaineer's Route next week; do I need a rope or crampons?" Or "Should I go up a chute or take the traverse?" Or "What's the avalanche danger?" Or any of a number of similar questions, most of which have only subjective answers.

By my count I have climbed the MR over 30 times, a goodly number of them being winter ascents. So I know it pretty well.

I cannot say it more clearly than this: The MR in winter is a prime example of something that only experienced mountaineers, who are skilled in technical winter mountaineering, should undertake. Note that winter conditions can extend into spring, and even as late as July. You need both the background to know what to do and how to do it, and the breadth and depth of experience with ice ax, crampons, and snow and ice rope work, to be able to do it safely. You must have practiced self-arrests repetitively, and you need to have the maturity, wisdom, and foresight to back off or change your plan if you find yourself over your head. Most often the situation is not this severe, but you always need to be ready for it. Climbing the MR in summer will not prepare you, nor will winter hiking with the occasional use of crampons and ice ax under benign conditions.

One caveat: There is nothing wrong with going with someone—such as a reliable guide service or a qualified and responsible friend—who does have the skill, experience, and equipment, and who will make sure you do the right things and protect you if necessary.

The MR is much shorter than the trail, and that means it's much steeper. There have been many more people killed on the MR than the trail, even though it has far less activity. If one guesses the danger of death on the trail to be X, then it is my opinion that the danger of death on the MR is at least 20X and may be of the order of 100X.

Skilled winter mountaineers have been injured or have died there, but it is safe to say that far more relative novices have suffered those fates. I am not sitting in judgment on the two recent fatalities, because I do not know their mountaineering backgrounds. Perhaps they were fully qualified and just unlucky, but I read some things in the accounts that I would never, ever, do myself. In any case, these incidents are truly tragic, and—while we cannot have the depth of sorrow and loss of their families and friends—we who go into these mountains always feel a special anguish when a tragedy occurs in the high places we love so much.

Sometimes similar questions on this board are legitimately posed by people who do have the skills and experience, and they are simply trying to get data on current conditions. But if you are asking because you really don't know what the climb entails, you are cautioned to do easier winter mountain ascents first. A whole lot of them.

One immense problem with these message boards is that you usually don't know the background or qualifications of those who post. It goes both ways. If, to a question about the MR, someone gives an answer, how do you know to trust what they say? Moreover, how can someone give such advice when they don't know the background of the one asking the question in the first place?

These issues are also valid for summer ascents, but are particularly important for winter. Not only are accidents more likely in winter, but the outcome is apt to be far more serious.

Unfortunately, many people approach this climb too casually. If you think I am being an alarmist, catch me out there someday and I will tell you a few stories.

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I want to elaborate on the caveat expressed above. When I said it was OK to go with an experienced friend, I meant someone you know and are confident of their judgment. An AMGA (American Mountain Guides Association) guide is ideal. Going with a person you don't know, but because of reputation you are sure is qualified, is usually still OK. That's because it's a compact situation: one leader and one follower.

When the numbers get bigger, all bets are off. An excellent climber is one thing; a climber who has the knowledge, skills, experience, and maturity to lead several novices safely up and back down is quite another. The operative word in this case is leadership; climbing ability is secondary.

If you're a novice thinking of signing on with a person of unknown leadership qualifications, you need to make sure your life insurance is up to date. And if you have experience and are thinking of taking on the responsibility for several strangers on a potentially deadly climb, you need to make sure your liability insurance is sufficient.

The Mountaineer's Route, especially in winter, is not a forgiving place. People, who are new to this type of climbing and must depend on others, need to choose those others very carefully.

Just echoing what Steve has said. Please take heed, novice climbers and do not put yourself and others at risk by doing something way over your head. By "others" I also include SAR team members who might be called upon to risk their own lives to rescue you or recover your frozen corpse. If you think we are kidding, you are only kidding yourself.

Although the MR in dry conditions is moderately dangerous, in Winter it can be pure hell. Come back in the Summer and try it, take a basic winter mountaineering course somewhere, then get lots of Winter mountaineering experience in easier settings.

Ignore advice to the contrary from other posters...

Adding an example: This SAR rescue from Nov 24, 2013...

Two men rescued already from the Mountaineers Route.

Recent SAR ops

Bob,

Every winter I save people from themselves. I have people follow me well off the gird and when they catch up, I ask, "Do you know where you are?". The answer is I'm on the trail. The next frequently asked question I ask is to people going up a high angle slope with Microspikes and trekking poles, I'll ask, "If you fall, how are you going to arrest your fall?". The response...I don't fall.

This past weekend a friend was out carrying a pack that included enough stuff to spend a night over 11,000' for a day hike. A woman who was part of a meetup group asked him is he staying out overnight? The answer was no but he followed up the his answer with the question, I notice your pack is so small, if you get hurt or lost at 11,000', will you be able to spend the night at that elevation safely? Her answer was sheepish no.

Many do things they want to do rather than what they are qualified to do. When things go wrong, SAR people are put at risk.

When I grow up I want to be just like you guys. You're such an inspiration. And so modest. The mountains are so much better because you're there and you care.

Sheesh...

While I might say it differently I get where you are coming from. There is a sort of prospective "I told you so" tone to some posts that makes it all that less likely that the underlying message, which is a good one (e.g. be safe, make smart choices, if you don't, you put not only yourself or others at risk) will be heard.

An interesting thing I have observed at least anecodotally -- it doesn't seem like stupid and/or risky decisions are only made by newbies. Indeed, if you think back on the recent deaths (an extreme case, I know), the folks were, for the most part, highly experienced and highly prepared. Not excusing bad decisionmaking ... just noting that the least experienced among the readers here do not have a monopoly on it.

I wonder if newbies may make more, but qualitatively different, bad decisions. For example, how many of the worst SAR rescue scenarios -- those that involve the most risk to SAR folks, or extractions -- involve newbies vs. novices vs. advanced vs. experts.

Akichow,

Most everyone who is rescued in winter is an experienced hiker. All you need to do is read the reports in your local newspaper. Michelle Yu was very experienced hiker who walked off the north side of Mt. Baldy with no map, no compass, no gps, no microspikes, no snowshoes, no crampons and no axe but 40 lbs. rocks in her pack on a day of white out conditions. This almost occurred again last month when two experienced hiker encountered the same conditions on the same mountain but went down a ridge on the south side of the mountain that few go to. SAR gave them a free to them helicopter ride the following day. The phrase experienced hiker does not apply in winter. You have to be more than an experienced hiker to go out in winter or you go out with people whose decision making you trust. There are tons of people I will go with during the three season who I would not go out with in the winter.

There is no I told you so quality to any of this. It is what has been seen by all of us who go out regularly during the winter. You know, like people going up high angled slopes with tree branches and their finest suede and fabric light hikers on a mountain that regularly sees SAR rescues in winter but is a benign hiking trail in the summer. The stories are endless.

The bottom line is I do not like seeing people seriously hurt or dying in our mountains. I've seen the latter and do not want to see the former.

To incur danger deliberately and to wrestle with difficulties which have in them elements of danger are two entirely different things.
Frank Smythe, The Mountain Vision, page 45

I don't like to see it either. But I also don't like to be talked down to, nor does anyone else. You have an important message, but being right isn't enough, is it? People need to hear a message for it to be effective.

Akichow,

People hear what they want to hear and do what the want to do. This is what I have found to be the case in the mountains. Jesus himself could tell them there is a mountain lion up ahead and they would keep going because they want to get to where they want to go.

When I am out in the winter, I tell people what I have seen where they are going, put the blinders on and just keep moving.

As I have said on board many times, the accidents do not change, just the names. You can tell people what they are up to is downright stupid in a kind and polite way and they will still do the stupid thing...I've seen it too many times, especially in winter.

Two winters ago, during a blizzard two friends and I went off the grid snowshoeing. We did not expect to see others. Eventually 3 groups caught up to us. Each time we asked, do you know where you are? 3 times the answer was on the trail. They stayed close to us until we stopped to eat, they went a bit further then turned around before their tracks went buh-bye. Things similar to this, happen all winter long. This is why most of us who go out in the winter have stories...many stories.