Good questions. Thanks for asking, maybe I can help clarify...

saltydog wrote:
> Are they actually doing it this way this year? Last year, when I went through the rigmarole, cancellations, no-shows and unused were all thrown into the daily lottery.
This year, because they are on a completely different system -- electronic lottery, AND in the Visitor Center, THAT system is different -- they have changed the process a bit. So starting this year, when hikers pick up a partial number of their reserved permits, those dropped from their reservation become available immediately. The clerks at the desk can see on their computer screen that some are available, and will issue those right away. No wait until 11 AM required. (Of course, this could change at any time, if lots of people start queuing up and asking for them.)

Larryd wrote:
> Second paragraph, about all activity is completed at end of date. I'm not sure what you mean. At 11 AM, the unused tickets for the next day are available - right?
The "all activity completed" part applies ONLY to the Unused Permits numbers posted in this forum. At 11 AM, all the no-shows for OVERNIGHT hikes starting the current day become available. Also at 11 AM, the no-shows for DAY Hikes starting the next day become available. (The day hike numbers are estimated, since day hikers have until noon before they are declared a no-show.)

> I guess I don't know the differences between no-shows, cancellations and unused permits
Yes, it is very confusing. And there is a difference between Day Hike permits and Overnight permits, too.

No-shows: Someone has a permit reservation, but does not show up to actually check-in and pick up the permit. They SHOULD go online and cancel so others can reserve it, but many don't. These people's permits become available to walk-ins at the Visitor Center at 11 AM (current day for overnighters, and day before for day hikers.)

Cancellations: Those are reserved permits where the good people log into recreation.gov and cancel their permits online. Their permits become available online to anyone else within 24 hours of their being cancelled. (And I THINK they become available during phone-in hours when Recreation.gov has operators working the phone lines. But this may be incorrect.)   With cancellations, they are no longer available online 48 hours before the trail entry date, and a "W" shows up for those dates on the permit availability display online.

Unused permits: Those are ones that were available to walk-in people at the Visitor Center, but were left over at the end of the day. It is these the show up in the count on the Unused Whitney Permits pages.

> At 8:30 or so, when slots are dropped, do you get those permits directly from the party dropping the permits, or do they get cycled through the office?
Not from the party. That would be a very confusing situation. Walk up to the counter in the Visitor Center and ask the person behind the computer screen.

> We are looking for day use permits.
Then your best time to pick up a Monday permit is Sunday at 11 AM, but some should be available Sunday morning as soon as those picking up reserved permits drop a slot or two.

Hope this helps!