Thanks everyone for your input. No matter how frustrating the process of understanding and procuring permits I would never go up without a permit. My anxiousness about breaking rules would ruin any fun I could have whether confronted or not. I am a retired government worker from state criminal court in California and I've known as many co-workers who do the minimum required to get by as I have known those who were willing to go the extra mile for people. The two permit office reps I spoke with this morning offered only to cancel the second date without refund and seemed quick to want to end the call, referring me to a rec.gov toll-free number....and I was being very pleasant. When I called back a third time at Steve's urging, repeated my problem for the third time, mentioned this board and read Steve's email (without id'ing him) listing solutions the permit office could possibly offer the answer changed and that is when I was told about Cindy and what she might be able to do. The tone changed as soon as I mentioned this board. It seems to help to be connected to connected people and you all are the connected people! So, I'm happy to be connected to you. In my branch of government there are also more liberal interpretations of rules for the connected. That's not a judgment or a criticism, but just awareness about the way humans operate. We do more readily for those we feel more connected to. Thank you Steve for being my pathway from anonymity to connection. I will say hi to Cindy for you! Thanks again. Whatever Cindy can do or cannot do I will be grateful for her consideration.