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Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
#21129 01/31/12 03:22 PM
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Ranger uses stun gun on man walking dogs off-leash

MONTARA, Calif. -- A man walking his dogs in a federal park was hit with a stun gun and arrested by a park ranger who accused him of not putting a leash on the animals and giving a false name, astonishing passers-by who say the reaction was excessive.




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Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21130 01/31/12 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bee
-- astonishing passers-by who say the reaction was excessive.


yes, seems a bit over the top...but....
perhaps the only way back from our society's long-lost personal responsibility is tough love

this is the real reason he got tasered:
"not compliant, tried to run away and lied to the investigating ranger about his name."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/31/4227400...y#storylink=cpy

Last edited by Harvey Lankford; 01/31/12 03:42 PM.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21159 02/01/12 05:18 PM
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Still sounds like too much to me. Tasers are no longer listed as non lethal but now are "less lethal" weapons due to the large number of people that die from them. For along time I would read about deaths in police related incidents about every other day but it seems they have backed off some.

The reality with tasers is they should not be used other then in a situation you feel your personal safety is in danger. They essentially are one step away from using your gun.

The problem in our society is that in the police hand books it says "pain compliance" is allowed. This is a nice way of saying torture is allowed.

Thankfully these sorts of incidents with Rangers are rare so I can still like them.

Last edited by RoguePhotonic; 02/01/12 05:20 PM.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21163 02/02/12 05:03 AM
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Last edited by AlanK; 02/02/12 05:05 AM.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21683 02/29/12 06:16 PM
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A law enforcement officer can use whatever reasonable force is necessary to gain compliance with a lawful order. The person in this case was not tased because he was walking his dog, but because he refused a lawful order to stop and identify himself -- and then kept walking after being told to stop. Undoubtedly there's a major investigation about whether this was a reasonable use of force.

A taser is not, primarily, used to cause pain and so gain compliance (though it is darned painful). It incapacitates the muscles such that a person can't move. Their use by police agencies has resulted in a measurable drop in injuries to both officers and suspects when arrests are being made. They are not one step away from using a gun since a gun is only allowed when a level of force is necessary to stop a lethal threat or bodily harm.

Having been at this awhile, I can say that with every new compliance weapon that's come along (mace, CS spray, pepper spray, various baton designs) all -- all -- have been blamed for otherwise unexplained deaths of suspects. What usually turns out to be the case, especially lately, is that a person has so many drugs on board that they were going to die very soon and the officer's actions had little influence on that fact.

Also a note on pain compliance vs. torture. Um, no. When used in the context of gaining compliance to -- once again -- a lawful order, it's one of the allowed tactics to get someone to do something that they are resisting or refusing to do. It could be something like lifting the arm slightly when a suspect is in a wrist lock and is refusing to move where you want them to go. Or pressing behind the ear, causing pain, to get a sitting protester (say) to get up and go with the program. The pain compliance hold should be accompanied by a loud order to do something the officer wants you to do "Walk towards the patrol car." When the person starts complying, the pain control hold is stopped though the person will likely be held such that it can be immediately reapplied.

Of course, in a chaotic situation it's not always textbook, but whatever is happening is almost never torture.

George


None of the views expressed here in any way represent those of the unidentified agency that I work for or, often, reality. It's just me, fired up by coffee and powerful prose.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21688 02/29/12 07:38 PM
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I believe that there is a misconception amongst some that because enforcement individuals carry an array of weaponry, he/she looks for reasons to draw/use them. I strongly disagree (well, I never casually disagree). The minute that the weapon is drawn/deployed -- even to the lightest degree -- things become very complicated for all involved. No one really wants to go there.

In a past life, when all things work and recreation required some sort of armed escort ( see similar: Fighting drugs and border violence at Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument ), I would duck out of being one of the "armed" parts of the escort, because for the most part,for anyone who had to draw a weapon, the ensuing paperwork that followed was inconvenient. If there was a reasonable chance that I could outrun the situation, I chose to forgo being armed, and wore trainers, instead.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21697 03/01/12 03:14 PM
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I'm sorry but I have seen too much from this society when it comes to fascism on our streets. I have become completely biased and police are guilty until proven innocent for me.

I could go on a much longer and detailed rant but it's too off topic and can get ugly fast.

I just hope that Rangers stay more true and don't become jack boot thugs like our police forces have become.

Last edited by RoguePhotonic; 03/01/12 07:24 PM.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21701 03/01/12 04:45 PM
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In 1969, when I was a mere lad at UC Berkeley and the term fascist was delivered with a lot more feeling, though no less ignorance, there was a bumper sticker: "Don't like cops? Next time you're mugged, call a hippie." Pretty funny then, even though I was (and, really, still am) a hippie.

George


None of the views expressed here in any way represent those of the unidentified agency that I work for or, often, reality. It's just me, fired up by coffee and powerful prose.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
George #21703 03/01/12 05:57 PM
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.....ahhh, thank you so much for the comic relief, George! I was getting ready to demand which Reality Show all this street life experience was based on, but I'll let it rest with your apropos sticker commentary.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21707 03/01/12 07:41 PM
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Believe me you don't want me to deliver my thoughts on fascism in this country with feeling. My level of anger is too much. I hate them so badly it poisons my soul.

I wouldn't call the police if I was mugged. I wouldn't call the police for anything.

If you only get your info from mainstream news or the bureau of propaganda as I like to call it then you don't know how bad things really are in this country because it's not covered.

I honestly don't want to go into the thousands of cases of fascism because it makes me too angry. And it makes me more angry hearing people stick up for these gestapo wannabe thugs.

Last edited by RoguePhotonic; 03/01/12 07:42 PM.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21717 03/02/12 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
Believe me you don't want me to deliver my thoughts on fascism in this country with feeling. My level of anger is too much. I hate them so badly it poisons my soul.

I wouldn't call the police if I was mugged. I wouldn't call the police for anything.

If you only get your info from mainstream news or the bureau of propaganda as I like to call it then you don't know how bad things really are in this country because it's not covered.

I honestly don't want to go into the thousands of cases of fascism because it makes me too angry. And it makes me more angry hearing people stick up for these gestapo wannabe thugs.


Please study up a bit on fascism and the gestapo before you use the terms so loosely.


Mike
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Mike Condron #21718 03/02/12 02:53 PM
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Mike, that would involve reading. wink


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Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
MooseTracks #21719 03/02/12 03:12 PM
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We live in an age in which people use the term "socialist" to describe a President who wants to lower corporate tax rates. And they don't get laughed out of town. Why not? Because the term "socialist" has no meaning anymore. It died from overuse. The same goes for "communist", "fascist", and "Nazi" -- and don't forget "Gestapo" -- all totally meaningless. Feel free to use them all interchangeably in any and all rants.

Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21722 03/02/12 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Please study up a bit on fascism and the gestapo before you use the terms so loosely.


I don't use those terms loosely and i'd ask you to study up on what is going on all around you in this country. Making jokes of serious issues is an insult to all the victims. But hey it's all the same as history repeats itself. I'm sure if we were in 1937 Germany we would be having the exact same conversation with all you defending the system.

As far as i'm concerned this country can burn to the ground and when the revolution begins I will be on the front lines. Like I always tell people. I love America which means I hate this country.

As for travel sure I have been out of California and all over the states but I have never left the country because I cannot leave. I will never get a passport under any circumstances which means unless I want to travel by border hoping I cannot leave. But thanks to the information revolution these days I don't need to actually go there to see and hear the peoples misery.

On the subject of other countries it's not all about that we are at that level "yet" although we will soon surpass it. I'd rather have been born and raised in say Nazi Germany or an equally messed up system because at least for most of these countries the evil is there for everyone to see. Not this total Orwellian nightmare that we have today.

That doesn't make those countries better but it makes for a better situation for me.

The last thing I want to say on this subject is I may completely hate the police but I also really hate that I have to hate the police.

Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
RoguePhotonic #21723 03/02/12 06:39 PM
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Last summer I was going up the MMWT on a little impromptu trip. I went up without much gear or supplies. I figured that most people pack more than they really need and it won't hurt them to share a little bit.

I was up near LPL and I ran across this nice couple who was having lunch. I sat down with them and unpacked the sandwich that I brought. They offered me a power bar and some carrots which was really cool. They got up and started hiking again and after a little nap I headed up the trail again too.

I caught up to them again at mirror lake where they stopped for a snack. They were eating crackers with cheese and salami. I was pretty hungry again so I asked them for some. They were kind of snotty when they gave me two measley crackers and cheese setups. Why were they being so greedy? They clearly had plenty of food. Don't they know that it's nice to share? They packed up pretty quickly and took off again. I guess they didn't want any company. They were spoiled yuppies anyway. Who cares, their food was probably all Monsanto GMO crap anyway.

When I got to trail camp it was almost dark. There were lots of people already cooking their dinner. It sure did smell good. I found a little place by four tents where the food smelled really good and set up my sleeping bag. I didn't bring a tent because it's summer and it was really warm down in los angeles.

I went over to the guys in the tents. They were with some group or something. I asked if I could bum a smoke off someone...but none of them smoked. They invited me over anyway and said they were having a potluck if I wanted to join. I pulled up a rock and started sampling the buffet. After a while one of the campers started hassling me about not adding to the potluck. I told him that I didn't have anything and he became a real nazi about it. I said I was sorry, but it wasn't my fault that I don't have any food.

After awhile I felt nature calling. I took off toward consultation lake to take a dump. I found a nice quiet place to drop a deuce and took care of business. When I started walking back, wouldn't you know it, Ranger Adolf was watching. He asked me if I knew that there was a strict "pack out your poop" policy in the whitney zone. I said yeah, but what's one little turd going to hurt? Would you believe that the fascist bastard lectured me for 10 minutes about the delicate ecosystem and water supply. Then he started talking about flowers....gardenias or something..or was it giardinias. Then he gave me a ticket. It's not like I'm some criminal or something. I just dropped a deuce. What a fascist prick Ranger Adolf was.

Anyway, this trip was starting to suck. I don't know why people like hiking at mount whitney. Everyone is obviously stuck up and doesn't care about the little guy. I got back to my tent and started to sleep. And all of a sudden I started to feel drops of rain on my face. Within seconds it was pouring rain. I started going around asking people if I could come into their tent and everyone kept on saying that they didn't have any room in their tent. Finally the couple that gave the cheese and crackers let me in. I got some good sleep between the couple. They finally woke me up around 7am and said that they wanted to leave and try and make the summit. I said "cool, rock on". Then they said, well, we want to close up the tent, so we need you to start getting ready too. I told them "no worries bros, I'll close it up for you, you head on up". They started getting snotty again and said that they wanted me to get out of the tent. What did they think I was going to do? Steal their stuff? Geez!!!! Selfish bastards, they've got enough stuff anyway. And if it wasn't for the rest of us, they wouldn't have that cool big agnes tent and mountain hardware sleeping bags. It's ok if they've got cool gear, but they should share some of it with the rest of us.

So I got up and started up the switchbacks. I was right by the cables when I started to feel really sick. My head was pounding a lot. I figured if I kept on going my headache would go away. I went up a little ways further and my head was just freakin pounding and then I started to puke. And all of a sudden, there's Ranger Adolf again. He said that I probably have altitude sickness and that I need to go down. Why didn't anybody warn me about altitude sickness? There should be signs at the bottom of the switchbacks or something that tell us that we will get sick. Little Adolf brings me back down to trail camp. And then he says "aren't you the guy that I gave a ticket to last night?" I says "yes". He then says "I forgot to ask you for your permit. May I see it?" I kinda laugh at him and say "we don't need no stinking permits". Little adolf doesn't know his movie quotes because he didn't laugh at all. He just says "yes you do". You guessed it, I got another ticket. I was done now. I just wanted to get off of this ugly rock. I started heading down and he says "isn't that your sleeping bag?" I just shook my head, it was all wet and there is no way that I want to carry it all the way down the hill. But this prick will give me another ticket if I don't. So I pack it up and start walking down. And he starts following me, Probably to make sure that I don't cut across the switchbacks, like that would hurt anything.

Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
tdtz #21724 03/02/12 06:57 PM
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tdtz:

Best.

Post.

Ever.

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Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
MooseTracks #21725 03/02/12 07:05 PM
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Laura,
I guess I forgot to put that one in the trip reports section last year.
td

laugh

Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
tdtz #21726 03/02/12 08:24 PM
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This is SOOOOO much better than my earlier foray into foul language (since deleted) !!!!



I could easily live in two other countries, but I love the good ol USA -- warts and all.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Ranger Uses Stun Gun on Man Walking Dogs Off-Leash
Bee #21727 03/03/12 04:28 AM
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can I have the movie rights for this epic trip report?


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