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Acclimatization, Training and AMS
#26245 07/26/12 07:43 PM
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nyker Offline OP
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Hi All.

With all the discussions about acclimatization, AMS- those who get it and those who don't and general performance on a mountain - for my own research, I'd like to pose a few questions to everyone to respond:

1. Do you often get AMS or have you gotten AMS when going higher up? (or have you felt like crap high up and not attribute it to AMS) and

2. How do you train on a weekly basis? - here, be as specific as possible, i.e. # times/week; duration/intensity, and importantly, what is your heart rate while doing your activity (running, biking, climbing, hiking, rowing, swimming, etc...Do you formally exercise in a gym with weights and machines or is daily/weekly hiking/climbing your primary exercise? Do you even keep track of your heart rate?

3. What elevation do you live at and/or do you spend a lot of time above 10,000ft?

I am testing a theory I have, based on my own experience (I am not publishing anything nor work for any scientific establishment).

Thanks!

Rob

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26247 07/26/12 07:57 PM
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1. I have had a pretty bad case of AMS once. It was the first time going up Mt. Whitney. I had taken diamox (125mg/day) for three days prior to my hike. I arrived in Lone Pine the day before my hike and did not sleep at altitude prior to my hike. I first started feeling like crap just past Trail Camp at 12,000'. This included a headache and slight nausea. I rested on a rock for about 30 minutes and started feeling better. I then decided to continue up the switchbacks. I felt fine going up until I started vomiting uncontrollably at about 13,400'. I immediately dropped down approximately 400' and felt better. I did not summit this trip.

The following year I spent two nights at Horseshoe Meadows and then hiked to Trail Camp and spent another night there. I was also taking 125mg of diamox per day. I went to the summit without any hints of AMS. I had my appetite all the way up to the top as well.

I have been to 12,000' feet several times since with no serious AMS symptoms (other than insomnia).

2. I get in one or two hikes per week that are no more than five miles and no more than 1500' vertical feet (cumulative). I never monitor heart rate. I don't exercise in a gym.

3. I live at about 1000' feet above sea level.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26254 07/26/12 10:52 PM
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I have summited Mt Whitney once (last August):

1.I have never experienced AMS. I felt great on top of Whitney.

2.I hike once a week often above 10,000 ft. I did check my heart rate yesterday on a typical climb - 120. Lately I have been doing some angled pull-ups preparing for my Half Dome hike this September. Occasionally I ride my bike in my hilly neighborhood.

3. I live in Reno, NV. Elevation at my house is 5500.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26258 07/27/12 01:01 AM
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Rob, I used to work out like nobody else -- ran stairs (6 floors, 3x, short rest, repeat the group 4x, for a total 72 floors.) And that was after a light weight workout. And I'd run down, two steps at a time. I recall getting my heart rate up to 220 at the top of a 6-flight stair run. Now 25 years later, I can only get my heart rate up to 170 on those stairs, and only do one or two groups.

I'd also run laps around a stadium -- up high behind the stands, down low at each end.

When I was in that great condition, I'd get out on a backpack trip, carrying big loads, ...and suffer with AMS, because I didn't acclimate.

Now I do like tdtz: Spend a night or two at Horseshoe Meadows before climbing high, and take low-dose Diamox. I sure don't suffer the AMS like before.

It is interesting, too, that people like RenoFrank, and Bob P on this board who also lives near Reno, never suffer the AMS. It seems that Colorado hikers don't have the AMS situations like here, either. I think it is because they all live at higher (~5k) elevations. Their going to 14k is like California low-landers going to 9k.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26262 07/27/12 04:37 AM
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Rob,

(1) AMS only once, at about 13K', due to a failure to acclimate. I've been above 14K' about a dozen times, and above 11K' countless times, all with no issues other than that one time. Every other trip to elevation, I've generally slept at least one night at a minimum of 7000 feet before pushing above 11K'. I once went from essentially sea level to above 14K' in the space of about 12 hours without incident, which gave me a false sense of confidence regarding my sensitivity to elevation. The AMS at 13K' the next year cured me of that notion. Diamox only once, last year while taking my wife and daughter up Whitney - I was taking no chances with an 11 YO.

(2) I hike the same route at a local mountain park a minimum of once weekly, usually Saturday - it's my primary workout. Cumulative gain is 2000 feet in 6.1 miles. No heart monitor so I can't speak to pulse with accuracy, but I'm guessing I max out at about 150 on the steepest, longest uphills. Some days are really intense, covering the distance/gain in about 2 hours, while others may be more mellow, depending how I feel and how much weight I'm carrying. I stay steady on the uphills and tend to jet on the downhills to keep my heart rate up. I'll often grab a mid-week "quickie" of 4 miles and 1300 feet at the same mountain.

I've recently added treadmill work at a gym to my fitness plan - yesterday I did 5.1 miles on a maxed 15-degree slope for 4000 feet of gain in 2:20 of work. My heart rate was generally between 115 and 130, with a high of 140 when I had the machine set to 3.5 mph on the 15-degree incline. I'm planning a Whitney MR dayhike next month, so this treadmill work will likely be a big part of my training plan the next few weeks since there are no sustained 6000-foot uphills in Georgia (or east of the Rockies, for that matter). Most of my work is brisk hiking, no running - at 54, I'm saving my knees. I occasionally hit the climbing gym and do upper body work, but it's very sporadic.

(3) I live at about 1000 feet, and do all of my training under 5000 feet. I get to 10K' or better 2-3 weeks out of the year. The first couple of days at elevation I feel weakish, but by day 3 or 4 I'm generally acclimated well and moving pretty much as if I were at home.

Please be sure to share the results of your research with us.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
Bulldog34 #26265 07/27/12 07:32 AM
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Interesting color.

As I live at sea level and (TRY TO) come out as often as I can to both the Sierras and Colorado to hike and climb,
I am always seeking ways to minimize the effects of altitude and maximize performance without using diamox.
I've only been to about 17,000ft, so don't know thoughts about this higher up.

It certainly seems there is some randomness at work here...but based on my own experience also,
acclimatization is important, but I think the most important is having a general solid level of
base aerobic fitness and not overtraining.

I've been active my whole life, and always did some sort of activity but never did a whole lot of pure aerobic work.
In many early hikes and climbs I never had a problem, even starting from sea level, flying in sleeping 4 hours and going to
11,000 or 13,000ft the next morning. I also never worried about it since inborance was bliss back then...something else we
cannot discount in how we perform up high. (the mind can do wonders)...

Years ago while starting to train more for climbing, I made the mistake of thinking this meant maxing out my
workouts, going anaerobic too often without first developing a solid base. I would do cardio exercises intensely, typically going
way above my truly aerobic zone and basically having an anaerobic workout for an hour or more. I'd be drenched and I'd always
try to train right under my lactate threshold, something from which I thought I'd benefit from a Vo2 max perspective .
The more I focused on this "cardio" the more burned out I'd feel and always felt one workout away from an injury.

After crashing on a few peaks and just feeling inexplicably miserable, I really focused on this as to why since at the time,
I thought I was in the best shape I've ever been in.

Spending time at altitude is important for your body to adjust, but I don't think
any acclimatization is actually happening for the night or two we spend at a trailhead.
However, in my own experience I do feel better doing this or at least being at 5,000ft.

While its hard to quantify at this point, I found when I dialed back my workouts significantly, to lower HR zones
and in some cases, avoided going anaerobic for 4 months, I dramatically improved my performance and never felt tired.
Living in NY, I don't get to any meaningful altitude too often, so that's not an option.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26267 07/27/12 08:01 AM
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Rob, I agree on the aerobic vs. anaerobic thought. Most of us who don't live/play at elevation probably benefit from emulating the expected workload in the Sierra or Rockies as accurately as possible - i.e., steady hiking with the occasional short burst of anaerobic effort in, say, a scramble. Deep, rhythmic breathing is one of the big keys in warding off AMS, and that's what I try to do in my workouts. Being accustomed to working anaerobically at lower elevations can be a bad habit above 10K' if you're not there often. Oxygen deprivation invites AMS.

I truly believe the key for me is sleeping 1-2 nights at elevation, at least if I'm going above 12K'. I don't feel any real ill effects up to 11K' or so if I've come straight from the lowlands, other than that weak feeling I mentioned. Lots of high-altitude research has been done on this, and the general medical consensus is that the body best acclimates by sleeping as high as is reasonably comfortable, and then going higher during the day. At least for expedition-style climbs. My one AMS incident seemed to be the result of staying in Lone Pine prior to a 2009 Whitney dayhike rather than sleeping high. I did several hikes prior to Whitney that trip up to 12K' without problems, returning to LP at night, but 13K' on Whitney-day did me in. Lesson learned.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
Bulldog34 #26273 07/27/12 12:09 PM
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I have summitted three times. The first time (two years ago) I did not really spend much time acclimating. We spent the day at the portal the day before and slept in Lone Pine. I felt great at the summit. The next two times (last summer) I spent the two days prior to the hike at alititude, one night at Horseshoe and the next at the portal. Both times I felt horrible at the summit, I wanted to either throw up or take a nap. I was confused because I thought I did a much better job training and acclimating than I did the first trip. A month or so later I found out that I had a heart condition called Atrial Flutter and that my resting heart rate was around 120 and that there were signs that I had it for a while (looking back). My heart was re-booted and now I have a normal rhythm around 60. I am attempting to summit this Monday and I am hopeful that with a couple of days at altitude and a normal heartbeat I will feel like I did the first time.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26275 07/27/12 02:16 PM
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My altitude experience is rather limited, but here goes.

Last year I was mostly untrained, my exercising was limited to actual hiking. I had several hikes starting at 10,000 and ultimately culminating in a successful day-hike to 14,000 and back. I was super-slow even at 10-11k. Above 13k I'd get seriously out of breath, I'd have to stop and rest after every 50 paces. But I didn't have any symptoms of AMS.

This year I've been averaging 8-10 hours/week of cardio (biking), a lot of it in high heart rate zones, at 140-160 bpm (I'm 31). I had one high altitude hike, Whitney main trail, which took just under 7 hours one way. http://app.strava.com/hikes/11172273 I think I've gotten considerably faster compared with last year. I was getting a headache toward the end of the climb, it could have been early stages of AMS or it could have been an excessively tight hat, not sure. 2x tylenol took care of it, I got to the summit and back, I didn't see any of the more advanced symptoms.

I live basically at sea level (700 ft).

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
nyker #26302 07/28/12 04:52 PM
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1) Never have gotten AMS , nor had any signs of it. Felt great (as good as you can on a 24 mile hike) .

2) Did not train constantly, however I have played Lacrosse for many years.

3) San Diego is about 300ft above sea level. Spend 4 days prior at 9,000 ft.

I will say however, I'm 19 and my friend and I did it together last year and summited in less than 6 hours from the Portal. Unless you're a super-star athlete (and even if you are) don't think this hike is cake.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
Danielisawesome #26340 07/30/12 08:20 AM
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1. I have never had full blown AMS, but have felt it's effects a couple of times. I have only summitted Whitney once, flew in and spent one night spent at HM and a second night in route at UBSL. No issues for either my son or I on that trip. I have also been over 13k several times, (multiple summits of the Grand Teton and other places in the Rockies and Cascades), with no real AMS.

2. I did not train any specifically for Whitney or most other trips to the mountains, but I do run quite a bit and strength train 3-4 times/wk primarily with my kids in our garage. I don't wear a HRM. Typical week would be 3-4 runs during the work week of usually 8 miles each and a long run on Saturday of 12 to possibly 20+ miles if I have a marathon approaching, (12-15 miles would be average). Most of the runs are done at an easy pace with one speed workout per week or at least one every other week. Speed can be track (example 8x400m), or a 4-5 mile tempo run at something like 6:45-6:50 per mile. My son was a high school lacrosse and basketball athlete at the time of our Whitney trip and cruised it without training for the hike.

3. I live in FL at a whooping 90' above sea level.

I believe that fitness helps a great deal, but there is no substitute for gradual acclimatization if you have the time to do it. I can definitely feel a huge difference in my performance if I am on a trip that has allowed for a couple of days of acclimatization time rather than just fly in and jump right on the mountain. I have done it both ways and feel like if I don't have the time to acclimatize, I try to stack the odds in my favor by being as fit as I can.

I also subscribe to the theory that AMS is very unpredictable and can strike the fit or the unfit. It can also have vastly different effects on the same person following the same program, on the same mountain at different times.

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
trail runner #26344 07/30/12 09:30 AM
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Kent, good to see you back on the board!

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
Bulldog34 #26433 08/01/12 11:11 PM
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AMS once while at breckenridge (~13k) after a long plane flight, no sleep for a week, and living off of bud light. had a headache and was short of breath. didnt acclimatize well either. maybe i will try a different strategy for whitney...

Re: Acclimatization, Training and AMS
wvueers #26481 08/03/12 08:17 AM
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I live at sea level.

1st time on Whitney, I camped at Outpost (10K), then at Trail Camp (12K), then summited. I started feeling bad at Trail Crest (about 13,6K) and felt progressively worse to wanting to die by the time I summited. When I got back down to around 11K again, I felt like superman.

2nd time on Whitney, I was on Diamox this time and felt great, falsely believing that Diamox would fix my altitude issues. I blazed past Outpost with the idea that I would stay the night at Trail Camp. 100 yards away from Trail Camp or so, I got full blown altitude sickness (vomiting, seeing double vision, poor judgement, sluggish thoughts).

3d time on Whitney, I slept three Friday nights on Mt. Baldy (10,064) and then slept at Outpost the first night of the assent. I was on Diamox this trip as well, by the way. On day two, I hiked to around 13K and then slept at Trail Camp. On day three, we attempted the summit. I felt great, but my son was not doing so well. He started feeling sick and had a pounding headache that did not respond to rest or meds and so at around 13,800 or so, we headed back down. I'm convinced that I would not have experienced any altitude issues had I pushed on. My next time up on Whitney, I will again spend a couple of nights at altitude before heading up Whitney.

Brent N



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