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Wag Bags
#37791 06/22/14 05:31 PM
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For all the people who complain about having to shit in a bag and having to carry that bag down the mountain I remind you that someone else will be carrying your bag of shit down the mountain if you do not do it.

The most likely person who will carry down your bag of shit is a underpaid park ranger. The second most likely person who may carry down YOUR shit bag is a considerate hiker like myself who finds it appalling that a fellow member of the hiking community could be so inconsiderate and selfish to their fellow hikers.

I removed around ten bags of other peoples shit the last time I was up there, along with tons of trash that was just blowing around the mountain. It sounds like I will have my hands full when I go up there in a couple weeks with reports of 40 plus wag bags around and above trail camp.

Do not be an asshole and leave your bag behind or go to the bathroom and bury it. Far too many people go to Whitney for that to be feasible. If you see someone else leave there bags behind you should say something. This is an unacceptable problem.

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #37792 06/22/14 06:12 PM
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Well said Ben!

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #37801 06/22/14 09:02 PM
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On the topic of those trail wag bags, a few trips ago we got to talking about a solution to the trash up there (since I won the "privilege" of carrying more than my own down). An idea was for the Forest Service to issue, say 10 extra "conditional" permits a day for hikers who will bring down say an 8 or 10# bag of poo, trash, etc and turn it in at the portal to get a deposit back. The Rangers might be the ones to bag them up at the camp, but not the burden off getting them down. Imagine 80+ pounds carried down daily.

Re: Wag Bags
willaby #37812 06/23/14 06:52 AM
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Thanks Ben and Willaby, for making that sacrifice. Be careful about sanitation.

There's always some percentage of people who will not pack out their waste. I was doing my business in a semi-private rock area just the below the summit of Shasta this weekend, and sure enough, plastic human waste bags popping out of the snow and a fresh pile right where I wanted to put my "target" down. It's frustrating.

Edited to add thanks Willaby.

Last edited by SierraNevada; 06/23/14 06:53 AM.
Re: Wag Bags
SierraNevada #37814 06/23/14 07:38 AM
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Is there a "official" complaint system to express the frustration of the number of wag bags on the trail? I'm not asking about the process to implement a new waste disposal system.

What is the process to have a complaint registered about the number of discarded wag bags and other trash on the MMWT? I would hope if there are a number of VALID(date, location, # of bags, etc)complaints and they were made public, something would need to be done to at least increase the removal of the wag bags from the trail.

Is there a phone # or official form that can be filled out? Are people willing to put in the effort to make an formal complaint?

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #37832 06/23/14 11:41 AM
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Serious question:
Are the wag bags meant for urine as well?

Re: Wag Bags
ultramarine #37833 06/23/14 11:47 AM
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They can be used for urine, however, I believe the intended use is for solid waste.

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #37836 06/23/14 02:20 PM
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Ok, I'll bite.

The complaint isn't so much the WAG bags themselves, as that there is a better (in most people's opinuon) solution of solar toilets that the past park superintendent ignored. I and I bet most people understand that WAG bags are necessary. We just question their necessity on Whitney.

Re: Wag Bags
ultramarine #37858 06/23/14 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: ultramarine
Serious question:
Are the wag bags meant for urine as well?


Urine adds weight, but a little bit of it activates the gelling feature, and I think releases some odor-reduction, too.

Re: Wag Bags
wazzu #37865 06/23/14 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: wazzu
Is there a "official" complaint system to express the frustration of the number of wag bags on the trail? I'm not asking about the process to implement a new waste disposal system.


I can't answer your question directly, but would offer this -

As I was descending Whitney a couple of weeks ago I met a backcountry ranger a bit above Mirror Lake as he was ascending. After checking my permit, we visited for awhile, and I mentioned there were lots of WAG bags up higher, including at least one within a foot or two of the small pond at Trail Camp where many obtain water. We both agreed that while the number of hikers over the past 5 years or so seemed relatively static, there seemed to be a noticeable increase in the number of WAG bags left behind. He commented there seemed little the rangers could do about the problem, other than make an effort to pack them out

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #37868 06/23/14 10:23 PM
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Yay, Ben!

like!

Re: Wag Bags
willaby #38015 06/26/14 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: willaby
An idea was for the Forest Service to issue, say 10 extra "conditional" permits a day for hikers who will bring down say an 8 or 10# bag of poo, trash, etc and turn it in at the portal to get a deposit back.


I think that's a great idea! like!

Re: Wag Bags
Steve Chamberlin #38026 06/26/14 04:12 PM
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I never thought about this,

but could it be not the dayhikers that leave WAGs but JMTers northbound who do not want to carry it with them?

This does not seem plausible - for them, the solution is a usual cathole (or under a rock) if needed that one day in the Whitney Zone and keep on going, no bag.

Then there is the difference in clientele, and sheer numbers, so never mind, it is probably the dayhikers.

Re: Wag Bags
Harvey Lankford #38032 06/26/14 11:13 PM
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The location of most of the orphanned WAG bags means most must be from day hikers.

Re: Wag Bags
ben g #38591 07/12/14 03:47 PM
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A proposed solution:

(a) $1,000 fine for leaving a wag bag, anywhere and anytime

(b) when the permit and wag bag are issued, the owner is identified on the wag bag (non-removable label, invisible code, etc.)

Re: Wag Bags
Edward #38592 07/12/14 05:33 PM
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Edward, I like your idea. A $1,000 fine sure would help out the forestry service. Social Security numbers should be given to get a wagbag too so the forestry service can garnish wages if someone tries to skip out on paying their fine. We need to rid the trails of flakey hikers who have no respect for mother nature, their fellow man and the laws.

P.S. I have carried out other hikers wagbags on my last three hikes on the Mt. Whitney trail. On my last hike I carried out two for others and my own.

P.S.S. On one hike I think I carried out the ranger's bag. We met the ranger at trail camp one evening, he was frantically looking for something, we thought he was looking for a camp spot or gear he had stashed. It was not till the next day that it dawned on me that he could have possibly been looking for the wagbag I found hidden in the rocks. I sure hope he didn't need to use it that evening.


Last edited by lynn-a-roo; 07/12/14 05:42 PM.

Lynnaroo
Re: Wag Bags
wazzu #38628 07/14/14 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: wazzu
Is there a "official" complaint system to express the frustration of the number of wag bags on the trail? I'm not asking about the process to implement a new waste disposal system.

What is the process to have a complaint registered about the number of discarded wag bags and other trash on the MMWT? I would hope if there are a number of VALID(date, location, # of bags, etc)complaints and they were made public, something would need to be done to at least increase the removal of the wag bags from the trail.

Is there a phone # or official form that can be filled out? Are people willing to put in the effort to make an formal complaint?

A short, clearly stated letter is always appropriate for a concerned citizen. I suggest:

Mr. Ed Armenta, Forest Supervisor
Inyo National Forest
351 Pacu Lane, Suite 200
Bishop, CA 93514

Re: Wag Bags
lynn-a-roo #38637 07/14/14 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: lynn-a-roo


P.S.S. On one hike I think I carried out the ranger's bag. We met the ranger at trail camp one evening, he was frantically looking for something, we thought he was looking for a camp spot or gear he had stashed. It was not till the next day that it dawned on me that he could have possibly been looking for the wagbag I found hidden in the rocks. I sure hope he didn't need to use it that evening.



Is it appropriate/legal to stash WAG bags as long as you do PICK IT BACK UP?

Re: Wag Bags
Chicagocwright #38651 07/14/14 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chicagocwright

Is it appropriate/legal to stash WAG bags as long as you do PICK IT BACK UP?

I think it's still littering, even if it's just temporary. Remember, this WAG Bag solution is suppose to provide a better "wilderness experience" than toilets. Seeing bags littering the trail is really bad for a lot of people, myself included.

Also, the Rangers don't know if you're coming back to pick it up or not, so they (and other hikers) end up picking up these bags.

New toilets. Let llamas remove the waste on Wednesdays. Everyone's happy, including the llamas.

Re: Wag Bags
SierraNevada #38664 07/15/14 03:43 AM
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...and if llama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.


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