Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Busted by California State Park Policeman

Agreed, just like my boat ticket!

The Park officer who let me off for 70 mph in 45 mph Glacier Nat Park used her discretion to just warn me.

SN: actually, I don't think the debate is about discretion either. I think everybody recognizes that the cop exercised appropriate discretion as far as issuing the ticket. He could have cited both the driver and the passenger, or neither, and cited only the passenger. Fair call. Maybe not where you would have drawn the line, but no rational court is going to say he abused his discretion on it. The issue as I see it is whether that gives him the right to be abusive in other ways: being generally rude and making threats. I don't think it does. And the fact that he may put up with a lot of crap from other people doesn't excuse it either.

I don't see anyone arguing that his rudeness is a defense to the ticket he did issue: just that its cause for a complaint about his general approach and the making of threats on things that had nothing to do with the traffic stop or the ticket. THAT is what was CS about this encounter, and just cause for a complaint.

The discretion I refer to is common sense, not legalistic. If he wrote a citation, or even 2 citations, in a professional manner without threatening to kick them out of the park like little kids, we wouldn't be discussing this at all.

the only person who was actually there was the author. and the group is discussing, nay arguing, about what may or may not have happened based on what the author would have you believe had happened. without video or audio it is impossible to know exactly what happened. and even if all of us had been there - each of us would have a different story.

i am certain that the individuals in this video each told a different story about what happened.
these "hikers" are embarrassing.

i sympathize. i have had cramps too. but risk getting arrested or tased or shot by disobeying a law enforcement officer's request to stay in the vehicle - never.

and in my book, the notion we should support a lawbreaker merely because he hikes is laughable.

wbtravis,

I agree with your posts on this subject. That's my two cents.

The video does not show the man getting legs cramps or how politely (or not) he requested to get out of his car. All you see is the man being arrested and almost tasered on the hood of his car in front of his shocked family.

As with Reno's story, we don't know what led up to either encounter. I tend to believe Reno, but I admit I'm biased toward a group of hikers on a 5-min shuttle ride having fun on vacation over a Park Ranger threatening to kick them out of the park. Others tend to support law enforcement for almost anything they do.

This thread is a great example of how our internal perspectives influence our external perception of things. We fill in the gaps of missing information and make assumptions based accordingly. This happens to all of us whether we admit it or not.

perspective is worth having:

most inappropriate citation for littering, ever

and the "warning" for no insurance seemed not appreciated.

Frank???

Now you're really arguing about the need for seat belt and helmet laws that only protect people from themselves.

Oh. Wow. I think I better just use my reverse button and back out of this thread -- pronto (otherwise I may have to delete or edit myself)

Harvey,

We only have one side of that story...Reno Frank's.

I have had more than my share of police contacts...I misspent my youth in Philadelphia. Some of the cops were ok...others were less than ok. I have been cited speeding when going the speed limit on freeway. With all that said, I appreciate the job LE does and do not particular care for the condescension. These people have a hard job made harder by the people they come into contact.

This officer showed discretion by issuing only one ticket where he could have issued at least two.

SN,

Punitive...what's wrong with punitive? Reno Frank's passenger was cited for breaking a law, that I'm sure she knew she was breaking. They took a chance, got caught and got punished.

WBT, by "punitive" I meant that the citation had no other purpose. The 5-minute lap ride "menace to society" was over. I guess all citations are "punitive" at least in part.

I'm glad to read you have a broader perspective on things based on personal experience. I grew up with an Andy Griffith wise old cop next door and it kind of set a standard of professionalism that I expect from law enforcement. I see it in most CHP officers and people that are naturals at law enforcement. Unfortunately, not all of them can handle the authority as effectively.

SN,

Nice strawman argument...who said anything about a menace to society. This was an infraction, not a misdemeanor or felony.

If you do something like this and are caught...just pay the fine. You made a mistake, don't compound it by seeking your 15 minutes...like the PS Tram hikers stuck out after going up in 105 MPH winds when the tram closed, the meth doers in Orange Co. or any of the groups getting stuck at the top of San Antonio Falls near Mt. Baldy.

WBT, "menance to society" is simple perspective on the 5 minute shuttle ride with a wife on her husband's lap. He'll pay his ticket or perhaps tell the story in court, that's his right if he wants to exercise it. The real issue Reno and others are complaining about is how the State Park Ranger was unprofessional and threatened to kick the group out of his park. It clearly disturbed his group for the weekend and beyond.

Comparing Reno's lap ride with meth head search and rescue? Really? I don't know RenoFrank, but I would be insulted if I was him.

SN,

I was talking about the 15 minutes of notoriety, where people make mistakes then have to talk about them. Those are just examples. Obviously, you don't like my examples of people who have done some foolish things then compounded their problems by reliving them. Sometimes the best thing to do is just keep your mouth shut. If you don't, you should not be surprised that people do not agree with your take.

Again, we only have one side of this story. I generally do not make judgment with one side of a story. You, on the other portray the officer as an incompetent idiot...see Barney Fife.

WBT, I think your examples are excellent of people doing really stupid, costly, and dangerous stuff such as the meth heads who got stuck on a ledge and launched a huge search and rescue mission.

Back to Reno's story, a wife sitting on her husband's lap for a 5 minute shuttle ride back to the trailhead in a state park is more like going 16 mph in a 15 zone. It's petty.

If a cop wants to write a petty citation like that, oh well, but then to compound it with disturbing threats that ruin a groups camping trip, that's really unprofessional. Some of us have higher expectations for our cops than that.

Here's a real problem that Tahoe State Park Rangers need to be dealing with instead of petty lap riders on a 5 minute shuttle ride:

Tahoe "Drought Bears" Euthanized

SN,

You obviously don't get it. It's not about the methheads or PS Tram riders. It about people having their 15 minutes. Reno Frank got his here. These other folks in the papers and television news. They got our sympathy until the entire story came out.

Here, we have but one side. I will not chastise and belittle LE until I have the whole story. They have a tough job.

The bear story is as irrelevant as Barney Fife.

Wow, you and I must really be "famous" if a post on the WZ qualifies for that. We've had some good debates back and forth on things.

I think I "get it" just fine, thanks, but we do see things differently. To me, this is about the pettiness of the citation, and if you combine that pettiness with the unprofessional bravado of threatening to kick the group out of the park, I think Barney Fife becomes a good example of what Reno had to deal with that day. More facts might change my take on this, but that's what it looks like to me.

As for the out of control bears, I bring that up to illustrate the current situation that should be a much higher priority for a Tahoe State Park Ranger. Law enforcement is about priority use of limited resources, which requires judgment, not blind support of everything cops do.

SierraNevada -

I have great admiration for your ability to suffer fools.