Mt Whitney Webcam
Mt Williamson Webcam
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 8 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
#40924 11/10/14 08:27 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California.............Here is report and link.From Fox News..not good.... gst Authorities are searching early Monday for at least 15 hikers from a church group who never returned from a weekend trek in a Southern California nature preserve.

The group of adults and teens ranging in age from 14 to 36 years old set out in the Eaton Canyon Natural Area on Sunday morning and were expected to return by the evening. A member of the group called the Altadena sheriff's station at 9:40 p.m. saying they were lost, said Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department Deputy Dan Paige. The caller did not mention any injuries, he said.

“They all have backpacks with food, water, a short piece of rope and extra clothing," Paige told FoxNews.com. "So some of them are pretty well prepared."

The group had planned to repel from a nearby waterfall, which they had done previously, Paige said.

"As far as we know, they're not even off-track," he said. "There's numerous trails up there."

Crews searched through the night and were joined by reinforcements at daybreak. A helicopter crew was standing by but couldn't fly because of early-morning fog, Paige said.

Members of the Seventh Day Adventist church in Huntington Park said the hikers have gone out as a group on 3-mile treks before. They had planned to go rappelling at canyon waterfalls.

"We're assuming that they got tired and they stopped," Wendolyn Ortiz told KABC-TV.

Eaton Canyon, a popular hiking spot in the Angeles National Forest at the base of the San Gabriel Mountains, is roughly 15 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles.

FoxNews.com's Joshua Rhett Miller and The Associated Press contributed to this report. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/10/res...tcmp=latestnews

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Sierra Angler #40925 11/10/14 08:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
W
Offline
W
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
Use the search term Eaton Canyon Rescue. This unfortunately is not unusual. Only the number of "experienced" hikers is.

Last edited by wbtravis; 11/10/14 08:42 AM.
Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
wbtravis #40926 11/10/14 09:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
Did I read it correctly: It is only a half mile or so into the climbing spot?

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Steve C #40927 11/10/14 10:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
K
Ken Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
Can't be much further, Steve.

This seemed to go about as well as could be hoped. kept together, were prepared, stopped when it got dark and they lost confidence in safe travel.....

I'm not sure this merited a SAR operation, though. They were in a deep canyon, with only one way to go out.

I'm often impressed with how close to trail/cars people are when rescued.

They had working cell phones, and still couldn't find their way out? You wonder if the authorities couldn't have given them directions. The GPS on their phones should have worked.

Ah, more info: There were stuck on a steep ledge, and had to be airlifted off, and one person was apparently injured:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Eaton-Canyon-Hikers-Go-Missing---282119881.html

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Ken #40929 11/10/14 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
If they were going rapelling and they were close to cars, then they more than likely were in the closed zone. I'm not aware of any water falls in Eaton Canyon near the parking area that are outside the closed zone.

So, someone took a church group into a closed zone? [facepalm]

HJ


Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving
Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
hikin_jim #40930 11/10/14 11:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
News reports say they have been found and are being rescued.

One news report says a different person, not connected to the group, was hoisted out of the area by helicopter.

As for restricted areas, a report shows this:
Earlier this year, Angeles National Forest officials closed an upper portion of Eaton Canyon above the area’s first waterfall after years of hikers falling and becoming seriously injured or dying.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Steve C #40931 11/10/14 02:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Steve,

I'm fairly familiar with that canyon. I've participated in a couple of canyon cleanups with the Canyoneering Association of America (CAC) over the last several months. The CAC had a special use permit to go into the closed area. Going up above the base of the falls is prohibited as is climbing up the walls of the canyon. If anyone was out there canyoneering, they were doing so illegally.

Now, that said, all the signs are at the lower end of the canyon. There is a dirt road that goes up and around to the east of the canyon. From that road, there are several points at which one could drop in above the closed section and then work your way down stream. I highly doubt any signs are up above the closed section. The drop ins are generally technical in nature.

The closure is intended to stop people from climbing up from below which is the way that a lot of taggers, jumpers (into the pools below the falls), etc. were doing it. I don't think anyone thought of technical canyoneers descending the canyon.

So, it might be possible for someone to be in the canyoneering section without realizing that a closure was in effect, particularly if they weren't a local (it's been in all the papers and on TV locally).

HJ


Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving
Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
hikin_jim #40934 11/10/14 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
K
Ken Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
I heard on the radio today that they were definitely not in the closed off section, so it looks like another case of media confusion.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Steve C #40940 11/11/14 08:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
W
Offline
W
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
Definitely not prepared. I saw them in shorts and tee shirts being pulled out of the canyon yesterday morning. It is November and it does get cold at night, it was very cold when I walked out a 8 AM to take out the trash...I'm at 1,620'.

The report link provided by Ken said they were in a group of 30 people. Let's see 15 people left without the group. They started a 9:30 AM with sunset at ~4:50 PM. Something does not add up here.

I never go out with more than a dozen people and If I were doing something like this it would closer to half this.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
wbtravis #40941 11/11/14 09:37 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
I think from a SAR stand point, we have at least Four Items here for critical overview. One, the reason for being over do....still to be determined. Two , the debate on Large groups as compared to solo trips...... Experience and time in grade ...How Important is it. Three, the Tech. act of rappelling alone is responsible for Over 50 percent of Climbing Fatalities. How Much, How far, and did All have the Training to do it if it was in fact needed. And Four, We must Come to the Realization that in the Southern areas amd other areas prone to Human Trafficing, Drug Loads Escorts and Sudden Install Growing Operations with Armed Guards from South of the Border...... There Are Other Items on the Watch list and " What Are We Going Into or Getting Our Selves Into " .....List .. ( Rappeling Gear and AR-15 s ???? U. S. Marine Backup ???? These are not Items for Discussion that are Imaginary.... Rather they Are Out There Right Now in todays SAR World and must be Addressed...We call it Operational Procedures or the Standard Protocols of the " What If " contingency arise s Book . Is an 8 Ring , Harness, Rope, and Beretta going to SOP for some areas in the Future ? You make the Call ... gst

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Sierra Angler #40945 11/11/14 11:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 634
Likes: 48
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 634
Likes: 48
This was a church group. They were probably counting on God to keep them safe. Maybe he was too busy answering prayers regarding Sunday’s NFL games to respond.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
bobpickering #40946 11/11/14 11:27 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
My Bad, Number Five, Prayer..... thanks !!!! gst

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Sierra Angler #40947 11/11/14 11:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
I would sure like to hear or see what people in the group have to say.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Steve C #40949 11/11/14 03:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,437
Likes: 92
News in the Fresno Bee and Seattle Times report:

Quote:
Altadena Mountain Rescue Team training officer James Moussally, who was part of the ground search, described the group as "canyoneers" who start high up in the canyon and work their way down by rappelling.

The group started with plenty of daylight ahead but its size likely made for slow going, Moussally said.

"It's not something you want to rush through," he said "There is safety involved. You want to take your time. ... I think it's a matter of maybe they weren't quite prepared for it to take as long as it did."

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/11/10/4227549_11-southern-california-hikers.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy


So they just took too many people to rappel down each pitch and get everyone down in time.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Sierra Angler #40952 11/11/14 03:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 908
Likes: 2
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 908
Likes: 2
Yes, SAR never knows what they will run into on OPs. During the last two summers on the Bishop Pass trail, I encountered a couple guys openly carrying 9MM handguns (legal now in Inyo NF), because they were "afraid of bears and mountain lions".

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
Steve C #40953 11/11/14 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
B
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
TeamBruin lives a block away from Eaton Canyon. We know the area in question very well. It is an easy walk/hike along the canyon floor to the base of the first falls. (A quick Google search will include what John Muir said about these falls 140+ years ago.)

They shouldn't have been there in the first place. Ascending from the canyon floor to get to the top of the first falls or to be anywhere in the upper Eaton Canyon area has been banned since August 1st of this year due to the increasing numbers of injuries, rescues, and unfortunately deaths. Sixty or so "hikers" have been plucked off of the steep and crumbly-shale canyon walls in the last three years, and since that time five have fallen to their deaths. Violators of the prohibition are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 or six months in jail.

Local news reports include statements from the church group that they have done this "many times", that they were "prepared", and that they "knew what they are doing." If true, and that they've been to this location before, they should be very familiar with the prohibition on entering this upper canyon (either from below and climbing up, or dropping in from Idelhour Camp above and rappelling down). In fact, the closure was well publicized even before it went into effect.

In the 2+ decades we have lived next to this popular canyon, I've never seen anyone staging their gear or entering to go "canyoneering" while wearing only lightweight shorts, tank tops, and tennis shoes. I suppose my idea of proper preparation for any possible situation is different than this church group's. Also, if properly prepared and geared up, would a fire to "keep warm" in an incredibly tinder-dry canyon have been necessary? The minimum temps that night were approximately 50 degrees. Such disregard is infuriating, as a similar situation occurred in October 1993 re a person trying to "keep warm" on a trail above Eaton Canyon -- but that resulted in a campfire that got out of hand, destroyed 151 homes and injured 67 firefighters.

Needless to say, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this group.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
BruinDave #40955 11/11/14 05:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Originally Posted By: BruinDave
Also, if properly prepared and geared up, would a fire to "keep warm" in an incredibly tinder-dry canyon have been necessary? The minimum temps that night were approximately 50 degrees. Such disregard is infuriating, as a similar situation occurred in October 1993 re a person trying to "keep warm" on a trail above Eaton Canyon -- but that resulted in a campfire that got out of hand, destroyed 151 homes and injured 67 firefighters.
Yes, the Firecracker Fire I believe. In all fairness, the person who started the Firecracker Fire was a homeless person who started the fire in high winds. I'm not excusing this group, but at least they didn't rise to the level of idiocy of starting a fire in a major wind event.

Supposedly, they were found outside the closure area. I don't have good information on that, though. There are a lot of side canyons, so maybe.

HJ


Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving
Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
hikin_jim #40957 11/11/14 06:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
B
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Thank you, HikinJim, for the fine information you provide on the various stove options. Very much appreciated.

Re this church group, it has been widely reported that they were in the upper Eaton Canyon, an area where the falls are located (i.e., between Idelhour Camp and down to the canyon floor) and which has been off limits for several months now.

As you may know, there is an absolute prohibition on fireworks, smoking, or the making of any fire in Eaton Canyon and the surrounding areas. I cannot remember a time when the canyon has been drier. Yet, despite the reports of the group members having "extra clothes", someone got cold and they made a fire. In 50 degree temps. With 15 bodies of body heat to work with. And these folks are "experienced?"

As someone who was fortunate to make it through the 1993 event, and for anyone else who has endured a shower of embers falling on their house, hearing about such a foolish decision that could've easily impacted countless others hits home, big time.

This was not a "signal fire." Considering their predicament, this group of individuals should be more than thankful that their ill-advised campfire didn't cause more problems for them and trap them in a situation that they couldn't get out of. While there was indeed a wind event in October 1993, and the transient in that situation was indeed booked for unlawful use of fire, I see them as both equally inexcusable, equally culpable, and equally worthy of your "idiocy" description.

Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
BruinDave #40962 11/12/14 07:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 849
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 849
Likes: 1
What is with these church groups getting into life-threatening predicaments? Mist Trail in Yosemite comes to mind where church members were swept away over the falls.

Question: Who the heck is in charge of these groups?

Experienced? Break out some Jimi Hendrix...


Fill in the blank: _____________ should be painful.

A. Stupidty
B. Idiocy
C: All of the above

Signs signs everywhere there are signs: Do these religious groups know the how to read the DANGER signs?


Journey well...
Re: Rescuers search for 15 missing hikers in California
hikin_jim #40964 11/12/14 09:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
W
Offline
W
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
As someone who has been told "prepare to evacuate" because of fire too many times, was not exactly thrilled by these "experienced prepared hikers"...not experienced prepared canyoneers starting a fire. I have been lucky a few times...wind shift from east to west.

When I go out in the shoulder season...I have a fixed turn around time and GPS that has sunset information on my primary screen. As Bruin Dave pointed out and I noticed yesterday morning, these folks were not prepared for shoulder season day, contrary to what the ignorant media espoused. Micro packs, shorts and t-shirts, no jackets and trail/road running shoes. The packs I saw did not have enough room for clothing and helmets...so I'm am assuming no one had one.

This is a dangerous overused area, according to reports. I have seen people in their finest Salomon Speedcross 3 sliding down the decomposing granite on if it bleeds it leads new reports over the years.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.30 Page Time: 0.055s Queries: 55 (0.037s) Memory: 0.6863 MB (Peak: 0.8418 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2023-02-07 02:29:35 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS