Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Old army pass safety

Me & the wife are going through old army pass July 21st and were wanting some safety equipment recommendations from those of you who have been through the pass around that time.

Enough snow for us to bring our Ice ax & trail runner crampons (no front point)?
Steep enough to rope up? If so, belay or just a walking rope team?

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.

Hi John,
I traveled this same route on June 28th, 2013, and only encountered significant snow near the top of the pass. This spot is normally the last snow on the trail. I doubt you will encounter any significant snow this year. With the late storms we have had I could be wrong, but still seems doubtful to me. I doubt you will need any crampons or rope, but everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes "risky" conditions. Although unmaintained, this is a fairly well worn path.

Keep watching for trip reports. Very likely you will get much better information in July.

My trip report from 2013 can be found at:
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads...ss-Ne#Post32072

Regards,

John

Just curious, what do you use?

La Sportiva and Brooks trail runners mated with Hillsound trail crampons.

Thanks for the info! Read your trip report and definitely doesn't sound like rope is worth the weight. At the 20-30ft snow field, was the snow hard enough to slide in the event of a slip or was it soft mush? Also, what kind of exposure did you have at the snow field?

The snow was sun-cupped, and soft mush. I guess it was ~ 9:00 AM, and a warm day. My concern was not about traction, but what was beneath the snow. I had considered going under/below the snow field, and when I climbed down a bit I could see lots of water running from beneath the snow, so I was concerned that I might break through the snow, and find myself in real trouble. A fall would have likely been fatal, so yes, lots of exposure. As I mentioned in my trip report when I walked down the trail from above I could see my earlier position, and believe that there was little reason for concern.

Even with the late storms this year I doubt there will be any snow on the trail, but "you never know". In my earlier post I mentioned that this is a well worn path. In spite of that you should also know that from time to time you will lose the path, and need to look around to see where to pick it back up. Not really a big deal, but just so you know.

The Cottonwood lakes basin is really spectacular, and the hike up to Old Army Pass is fun. Not a walk in the park, but fun. You and your wife will enjoy this hike.

I've added a couple of pictures from 2014 for further clarification.





Do you plan on going up to Langley?

Regards,
John

I thought that was nice of John to post those two photos..... It really shows what a hiker needs to know.

I've been over that pass dozens of times from just day hikes to longer hikes and the quick, and easy way out.

thanks Jon

paul

Wow, I really appreciate the elaboration! We're doing Whitney, Muir and Langley on the same trip. I'll check again in July, but from the pics it looks like maybe just an ice ax may be helpful to check out snow, cut steps if necessary, etc since it's only an extra pound.

As you say, "no downside" to taking Ice Axe, but I doubt you will take it off you pack.

Is this a multi-day hike? Staring at Horseshoe Meadows and finishing at Whitney Portal? Langley, Muir, and Whitney along the way? This is a fairly popular "start/finish" route, but many variations as to how to get from point A to B. These peaks can also be done with two separate one day hikes, although they would be "big" one day hikes - especially if taken on consecutive days.

Yes, ridiculously multi day. My wife has Multiple Sclerosis that's well managed and loves mountaineering. 5 summits under her belt so far and building up to Aconcagua. This will be her first trip carrying a pack. I've carried 100% of the gear so far so I'm excited about that.

Day 1: Acclimatization at Horseshoe Meadows
Day 2: Move to Outpost Camp for more acclimatization
Day 3: Acclimatization hike to Trail Camp and back to Outpost Camp (simulating a cache carry/reinforcing proper acclimatization)
Day 4: Move to trail camp
Day 5: Mt Whitney summit and back to Trail Camp (her first time being this high for a new moon night)
Day 6: Mt Muir summit and back to Trail Camp (teaching her a top rope belayed climb and rappel descent/contingency day for weather)
Day 7: Descend to Horseshoe Meadows
Day 8: Move to Cottonwood Lake #4
Day 9: Mt Langley summit and back to Cottonwood Lake #4
Day 10: Exit/Contingency day for weather

@JohnDoe - all the best to you and your wife on your trip!

I've been participating in MS fundraising events (50-mile MS walk, 150-mile MS bike ride, etc...) since 2001 (a dear friend has MS and is doing great).

I climbed Kilimanjaro in 2011 with MS & Parkinson's climbers and we'll try Whitney this summer. 2 of our MS Kili climbers summitted Aconcagua a year after Kili. Folks living with MS (and other illnesses) are truly inspiring. Climb on!

Our Kili expedition lead is Lori Schneider, the 1st person with MS to complete the Seven Summits! Amazing! (http://empowermentthroughadventure.com)

I look forward to your trip report and photos!

Good luck and have a great time!

JohnDoe: It sounds like a great plan over all. Especially the simulation of the Himalayan style approach between Outpost and Trail Camp. But I have a question. Its hard to tell from your sequence: are you sure you understand the location of Horseshoe Meadows to the rest of the route? The "move" from Horseshoe involves a 20 or so mile drive from HM to Whitney Portal and a 3.5 mile climb to Outpost. (Outpost is at about the same elevation as HM). Similarly the "Descent to Horseshoe" from Trail Camp is a 6-mile descent to Whitney Portal and then the drive back to HM. And its a hard 6 miles: 4000 feet down.

If that's what you have in mind, my hat is off to both of you.

BTW, when you say 5 summits, I have to ask: which 5?

Thanks and small world. My wife has been chatting with Lori for advice on MS specific training and climbing goals. I can't say enough good things about Lori!

Yes, I'm aware that Outpost is only about 500ft higher than Horseshoe Meadows. We live 600ft ASL and have problems with exertion above 10000ft without a couple days acclimatization. Also, neither of us feels much acclimatization benefit from hanging around 8000ft or less, hence Horseshoe Meadows as opposed to Whitney Portal. We'll have our car to shuttle so no big deal there.

Here's what she's done so far. Nothing difficult with the exception of Wheeler, due to the 100% snow cover and that we didn't take the established route (to intentionally add some snow skill experience to the route). She loved knowing that the tent was sitting on 10ft deep snow, lol. Guadalupe was a pain for me because I was carrying 100% of the water for 3 days (no reliable water source) plus all the gear.

11/3/14 guadalupe peak
8751ft summit
Texas High Point
Guadalupe mountain range
3029ft Prominence

11/6/14: hunter's peak
8369ft summit
Guadalupe mountains range
Texas 6th highest point
571ft prominence

11/7/14: bush mountain
8632ft summit
Guadalupe mountains range
Texas 2nd highest point
951ft prominence

5/3/15: mt. Walter
New Mexico 2nd highest point
13141 summit
52ft prominence
Sangre de cristo range
New Mexico, United States

5/3/15: Wheeler
New Mexico High Point
13159ft summit
3409ft prominence
Sangre de cristo range
New Mexico, United States

Wow; Guadalupe to Whitney to Aconcagua: that's quite a progression. Best wishes for every success.

Ha! Not that quick. MANY more trips before Aconcagua. :-)

I did Langley last year on July 12th up New Army and down Old Army. There was only one patch of snow along the trail on Old Army about 20 feet long. My hiking shoes were worn out so I did the entire thing in tennis shoes and didn't feel the need for any additional traction. I would suspect you'll encounter similar conditions when you climb.

Here is a picture looking back at Old Army that day: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...6a2&theater

The entire album is here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...mp;l=b0cb7e46a2

Thanks for the info. That's good news. I'm all for carrying less kit!

Just a quick update...

Summited Mt Langley yesterday via Old Army Pass. The trail snow at the top of the pass was rock hard ice when we got to it, so we were unable to traverse in just our trail runners.

However, there's a very nice route below the snow that just required some quick scrambling at the entry and exit points with minimal exposure.

On return from the summit, it had softened sufficiently to kick steps into, and along with trekking poles, was plenty safe to pass in trail runners. The last 20 ft even has a fine runout for glissade.

Mt Whitney and Mt Muir starting tomorrow!

Do you have any pictures from your trip John? We're heading up in a couple of weeks and one person in our party may have an issue w/ that part. I'd prefer to go up Old Army. thanks!!