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Mountaineers Route in April questions...
#45585 03/29/16 07:04 AM
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Hello! Newer forum member here, but hopefully I’ve done enough homework/legwork on this forum to avoid supernoob questions…

My wife and I will be heading out for the Mountaineer’s Route the last weekend in April. Our background includes a dozen+ CO 14ers, any other hikes we can find, and guided climbs of Rainier (2x), the Grand Teton, Mt. Hood.

I would be interested in the group’s thoughts on a couple questions we’re thinking through at the moment…
- Do conditions this year seems better/worse for a 1 day push in late April? I’m sure it depends on recent weather...we are in great (flatlander) shape and are comfortable starting/ending in the dark (with some pre-scouting of the E-ledges), but also want to be able to relax and enjoy the scenery here and there.
- If we decided to spend the night, what are conditions at Iceberg Lake/UBSL/LBSL (any of the above) in late April? I’m primarily thinking about wind, and whether a lighter 3-season tent would cut it, but also whether our 20-degree bags are sufficient.
- What are water sources like below/above the moraine this early? If we spend the night we can melt snow, but we have to think about our water carry if we try for 1 day.

Thanks for any experience/insight! If anyone is planning to head up April 28, 29, or 30, let me know!


Our photography website: http://www.jordanchapell.com
Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45586 03/29/16 07:16 AM
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hello,

I dayhiked it this past weekend on March 25, 2016. Conditions were ideal. Its hard to tell what they will be in april as if now, but my partner and I each carried 3 liters. The last available water source for us was at lower boyscout lake. Everything from there on up was frozen. I suggest chugging at least a liter before you start. We left the portal at 1 am and summited by 1:30pm. Yes, long day with no sleep or acclimating! Then back to our vehicles by 11 pm. Wind is variable, you will not really know until that week. Also, for the final 400, do you plan on roping up? There are 3 different routes up, so eye the one you would want to do and plan accordingly! If you have any other questions you can email me at sarahtitandaou@gmail.com

as far as the e ledges, there might be enough snow to where you can bypass them, but i suggest doing them and staying on "trail" they are not bad at all, and im a wuss!

best of luck!

Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45589 03/29/16 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: jchapell
(with some pre-scouting of the E-ledges),


These two videos should be useful scouting the E-ledges (see my post in center of the page)


http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads.php/topics/40747/Re:_Oct_18_Mountaineer's_Route#Post40747




Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45590 03/29/16 08:10 AM
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Do you feel confident that your guided Rainier, Hood and Grand Teton experience and training prepared you for unguided ice and snow climbing? Both the MR chute proper and the final 400 should be expected to hold a lot of both, at least at this point. Late April can be full-blown winter conditions or a big bluebird melt. If you are driving, I would be prepared for both and make equipment selections just before starting. You may be able to push it in one day - many do - but I would not go up unprepared for an overnight.


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
sarahD #45593 03/29/16 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: sarahD
hello,

I dayhiked it this past weekend on March 25, 2016. Conditions were ideal. Its hard to tell what they will be in april as if now, but my partner and I each carried 3 liters. The last available water source for us was at lower boyscout lake. Everything from there on up was frozen. I suggest chugging at least a liter before you start. We left the portal at 1 am and summited by 1:30pm. Yes, long day with no sleep or acclimating! Then back to our vehicles by 11 pm. Wind is variable, you will not really know until that week. Also, for the final 400, do you plan on roping up? There are 3 different routes up, so eye the one you would want to do and plan accordingly! If you have any other questions you can email me at sarahtitandaou@gmail.com

as far as the e ledges, there might be enough snow to where you can bypass them, but i suggest doing them and staying on "trail" they are not bad at all, and im a wuss!

best of luck!

SarahD's picture from Instagram taken on the Final 400. Awesome picture!!


Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45596 03/29/16 11:35 AM
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If there is enough snow, bypass the ledges on the left side of the canyon. Otherwise, follow the trail up the ledges to LBSL.

Study the route, especially from UBSL to Iceberg Lake. It’s easy to get confused if you haven’t been there before.

There are several ways up the chute. Just pick whatever looks good, depending on the amount and firmness of the snow.

The final 400 will be your biggest challenge. When it’s dry, it’s enjoyable class 3 rock. In April, it will probably have a lot of snow and some true ice, making it much harder. You will probably have to climb it wearing crampons. Most people do it un-roped, but the guide services use ropes.

Day-hiking the MR in winter conditions requires a lot of determination and stamina, enough technical skills to motor up and down without hesitating, avoiding any route-finding mistakes, good snow conditions, and good weather. Very few people successfully day-hike the MR in April as their first attempt on Whitney.

I suggest spending a night at Iceberg Lake or 1-2 nights at UBSL. Plan on camping in the snow. A three-season tent is probably OK, but I always build snow walls. A 20º bag definitely wouldn’t keep me warm. I used a 0º bag and a 3-season tent at Iceberg Lake when I did Whitney, Muir, and Russell in April 2009.

Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
saltydog #45609 03/29/16 05:54 PM
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All, thanks for the prompt replies! Here are a few responses.

SarahD - Awesome work on your climb! I saw your post elsewhere in the forum with the quick review. Thanks for the info on the water sources. At this point we aren't planning to rope up (though we will be brining the 'pons, ice axes, and helmets).

RenoFrank - thanks for the videos! I think I already bookmarked them to refer back to.

SaltyDog - Our guided trips have included (basic) self-arrest and steep snow travel with ice axe and crampons (not to mention my well worn copy of Freedom of the Hills and our practice in Colorado), but we're choosing this specifically as a challenge to do on our own. If the F400 (or options) appear above our threshold, we're comfortable turning around.

Bobpickering - thanks for the insight, and advice on the tent/bag. I figured the 0-degree bag was called for, but a 3-season tent would certainly be a welcome weight savings over 4-season.

We have 3 open days in our trip, so whether we do a dayhike to LBSL before a 1-day attempt or go for 2 days, we have a little flexibility. If we go for the 2 day option, does anyone have experience on early season conditions for Mt. Muir? I wonder how spicy the class 3 summit gets.

Thanks again!


Our photography website: http://www.jordanchapell.com
Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45611 03/29/16 10:51 PM
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The last non-lottery permit weekend is likely to see more people out there, so you will probably have company.

Just so you know... Mt Muir is an hour's walk to the south (and back if you plan to descend the MR). You could always make it a loop trip and descend the Main Trail.

Mt Muir sticks up so much, it will likely be nearly snow free, so if you have the time, it shouldn't be much different from a summer ascent.

Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
Steve C #45613 03/30/16 05:57 AM
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Thanks Steve C!

We hadn't planned on doing the loop, if we did an overnight trip I think that would be ruled out (our overnight gear would still be down at Iceberg Lake), but good to hear your insight on Muir's conditions. I think I saw on a different post/thread that Bobpickering did a round trip to Muir from the Summit in about 2 hrs, if I recall.
Thanks!


Our photography website: http://www.jordanchapell.com
Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #45614 03/30/16 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: jchapell
Does anyone have experience on early season conditions for Mt. Muir?

I’ve climbed Muir twelve times, three with snow on it. The January 1993 trip was fairly dicey with nearly a foot of fresh snow. I’ve done it twice in April as extra credit after climbing the Mountaineers’ Route. For both April trips, the wind and sun had cleared most of the snow off the summit, so it wasn’t too bad. I’ve always done it with bare boots (no crampons). In April 2014, I was pushing really hard because I had two partners waiting on the Whitney summit. The round trip took two hours.

Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #46071 05/02/16 10:35 AM
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In case this is useful info for anyone else looking to go in the next few days (though it may already be outdated):

We went up the MR on Friday 4/29. We had planned for a 2 day, camping @ UBL or Iceberg, but weather looked bad for Sat so we did a 1 day push on Friday. We had great snow conditions until the chute, which was mostly deep very loose snow. We made it to the notch around noon, but a very deep bank of unconsolidated sugar snow turning the corner into the final 400 (or down to the easy walk off) was way to sketchy. One person attempted before us early in the morning and turned around at this point, we tried for 15-20 minutes, and a group of 4 after us tried and decided the same. All decided the gigantic runout with snow that couldn't arrest a fall, + potential avy conditions were not worth attempting. Sticking to the rock ledges on the left side of the final 400 may go, but they were iced over. More snow has fallen since then, so conditions may be different. I'll try and put up some pics of the notch tonight, but let me know if anyone would like any other recent beta.

Thanks for all the useful info on this site, we loved our time on the mountain!

Last edited by jchapell; 05/02/16 10:35 AM.

Our photography website: http://www.jordanchapell.com
Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #46072 05/02/16 11:32 AM
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Thanks for the report, Jordan. Sorry you got so close but not the top. But it sounds like you made the right decision.

The mountain will always be there, so you can always come back.

Looking forward to pictures!

Re: Mountaineers Route in April questions...
jchapell #46083 05/02/16 09:38 PM
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Just a couple until I can get a proper trip report together...

Snow & wind in the notch:





A shot of the deep loose snow blocking the Final 400 and easy walk off. Getting to either the 400 (left of center) or easy walk off (out of frame to the right) would require a too much exposure on the blank snow to the climber's forward right, which was very unconsolidated and looked prone to slide. You can see my tracks hugging the rocks to the center left, but it didn't seem smart to progress further last week.

Last edited by jchapell; 05/02/16 09:39 PM.

Our photography website: http://www.jordanchapell.com

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