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Whitney MR question
#57574 07/04/20 03:03 AM
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Would it be reasonable to do Mt Whitney via the MR if I did Mt. Shasta via the Avalanche Gulch route and Mt. Adams through the South Trail? When I did Avalanche Gulch, I turned a bit to the left and went through this Chimney. It was pretty icy because there were around 70 mph gusts during that day. But when I check through google maps, I don't think the angle ever exceeded 40 deg. I don't know if the MR on Whitney gets that steep. On AG, I felt very safe and really wasn't that bad.

I know its mostly dependent on my own skill level and what I feel comfortable, but I thought if AG got any steeper, it really wouldn't be an issue for me. I just wanna know if its reasonable for someone who's done Shasta to comfortably do MR as well.

Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57575 07/04/20 08:21 AM
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I’ve been on Whitney and Shasta dozens of times by various routes. When the Mountaineers’ Route has unavoidable snow and ice, it’s comparable to the steeper sections on Avalanche Gulch. The difference is that the MR has quite a bit of rock climbing that you don’t get on Shasta. Below the notch, the rock climbing is pretty easy – mostly class 2 with short sections where you’ll do a few class 3 moves. The “Final 400” above the notch is fairly sustained class 3 with harder possibilities if you get off route. The Final 400 can get treacherous where the snow melts and refreezes as water ice. If your rock skills are as good as your snow and ice skills, you should be fine.

Re: Whitney MR question
bobpickering #57582 07/04/20 02:58 PM
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Thanks for the info. I've done bouldering pretty much every day in college and my highest toproping grade is a 5.10b. But I don't think I've ever done any real class 3 stuff. A few of my friends have done mid pal in the past and that looks very fun, and I would love to do it this August. Perhaps that would give me a taste of the Final 400?

I've heard that the final 400 can be avoidable by traversing across the snow, but I've gotten more comfortable with rock stuff. I don't think I would be able to do that last year, but now it doesn't seem to bad. Do you know the best time to go to avoid the final 400 being iced up?

Last edited by climby_climber; 07/05/20 12:36 AM.
Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57583 07/04/20 03:13 PM
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There shouldn't be any more ice in July and August, unless there's a recent storm followed by cold weather.

Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57584 07/04/20 04:25 PM
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Middle Palisade isn't as easy as it once was. See this thread. The final 400 will prepare you for Middle Palisade. Not the other way around.

Re: Whitney MR question
Steve C #57588 07/04/20 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve C
There shouldn't be any more ice in July and August, unless there's a recent storm followed by cold weather.

Yea, I forgot to point out that I would be attempting it next May.

Re: Whitney MR question
bobpickering #57590 07/05/20 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bobpickering
Middle Palisade isn't as easy as it once was. See this thread. The final 400 will prepare you for Middle Palisade. Not the other way around.

In that case, let's hope all those bouldering days in college paid off. Is the route on the MR hard to navigate? Is it easy to get lost and find yourself cliffed up somewhere?

Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57594 07/05/20 02:23 PM
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Middle Palisade is a classic third class climb. It is just getting from the snow onto the rock that is the problem, as the old ice field/glacier has melted away from the point where was an easy hop across the crack onto the mountain. But now that it has melted far away, there is a steep wall at the base to climb. Once you get above the ice field, the climbing is fun third class.

The Final 400 with ice can be done in May -- a number of climbers do it. Guide services always rope their clients on that section, but private groups tend to do it without. In May, you will need ice axe and crampons. The bad place in May, if you choose to do the traverse, is the westward traverse just west of the Notch. It is steepest there, with no end to the steep descent below. Doing the Final 400 would be safer if that traverse is too icy.

Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57603 07/06/20 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by climby_climber
Is the route on the MR hard to navigate? Is it easy to get lost and find yourself cliffed up somewhere?

There is really only one tricky move in the Final 400 which is actually getting into it. There's about 8-10' of exposure with bad handholds getting up to a ledge. Once you're on that ledge, head straight up and go a bit to the climber's right. If you go too far to the right, the terrain will become 4th/5th class. It's easy and fun movement all the way to the top. There are also plenty of other variations that stay 3rd class. Enjoy.

Re: Whitney MR question
BFR #57607 07/06/20 11:56 AM
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Re: Final 400 entrance, a 2019 post on the 'other' board states:

Quote
People have hacked away at the rock at the base of the final 400' making cheater steps, so it's a straight-forward 3rd class ascent and descent.

I don't know how significant this modification is, or when it is supposed to have happened. I am not much of a climber, but can't remember having trouble there when I went up solo in 2014, although now that I'm planning a return, reading about things like this always psychs me out. Pictures and videos can make things seem more difficult or more trivial than they are IRL, so they aren't as helpful as one would think.

On the more general question of navigating, I did find myself in some difficult spots on the way up from Iceberg--went up things I would not have wanted to downclimb, things that didn't fit my idea of "class 3". I was generally left of the main scree chute in summer conditions, but comparing with photos I've seen, it is clear that I never did find the preferred "easy 3rd class" rock and "catwalk" areas that are commonly referred to.

I was alone on the route and did not have a Richard P. to help me...from earlier in same linked thread:
Quote
as we glanced up the Chute of Scree, we saw what we thought was our left route and headed up. About 60% of the way up, we see Richard P. standing on a ridge to our Left. Richard P. is smiling and telling us that we are NOT in the left Chute and guided us over to a rock wall to climb to get out of the wrong chute. We want to thank Richard for being there when he was, because little did we know we were going up a class 4 Scree Chute from Hell that were were told is only used in Winter ascents. Throughout this chute, I was telling myself....what the hell did we get ourselves into. It was pretty scary to say the least. Lots of sections where you had to lift all of your body weight by your fingers over large rocks to avoid the sandy scree. Once you hit the scree, you slip down the 45 degree slope. Unfortunatley, we were on the left side of the main chute, not the left chute.

Once Richard P. got us back on track, we looked down and notice the obvious hard rock path that we should have took. It had nice big rocks to hold onto. Unfortunatley, you can't see it from Iceberg lake unless you lift yourself over a large rock wall to see the real "left chute".


There's currently a discussion on the FB group where someone has posted a photo claiming to show the best route on rock. Can anyone comment on its accuracy? Is the darkish slot just right of the red line the real "left chute", or is the best path more immediately left of the main scree chute, as the "rock wall" discussion above seems to imply? I'd love to get this right for once this time. [Linked Image]

Re: Whitney MR question
cantare #57609 07/06/20 12:11 PM
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The original post in this thread was asking about doing the MR in May. In May, that first move at the bottom is not a problem because there is a snow bank there to use. It is the snow and ice-covered rock all the way up that always requires careful attention.

In the picture above, the red line is the right way to head up. If you stay in the deepest gully just to the right, it reaches a headwall block that is rough to get out of.

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Re: Whitney MR question
cantare #57610 07/06/20 12:11 PM
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The dotted line looks a bit too far to the climber's left toward the bottom but as the line goes up it ends up in the right spot. This is generally correct, the path of least resistance is pretty obvious when you're there.

Last edited by BFR; 07/06/20 12:12 PM.
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Re: Whitney MR question
Steve C #57612 07/06/20 12:28 PM
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Thank you. A headwall block, like a large chockstone? I have trouble recalling much of what I wound up doing, but I do vividly remember being daunted by something very much like that.

My ascent was August 2014, so no snow--I made it up the initial crack, but I don't know if the supposed 'improvements' had been made at that time, or what they consist of. I've seen photos of the snowbank just to the west of the notch in spring/early summer conditions, and it does look easier.

I found ice on some of the final 400 rocks, even in August, but can't remember it posing much trouble, given due caution. I went down the main trail, so I didn't have to contend with it on a descent.

Re: Whitney MR question
cantare #57614 07/06/20 03:36 PM
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A couple more questions to pile on:

What are the water crossings like? (we are headed up 7/11/20, but for general knowledge) I see some reports mention putting on water shoes, some saying they can be thigh/waist deep, and some don't even mention them at all. I don't mind taking boots off, but would water shoes be a good idea? Or will having poles and rock/log hopping ability going to keep me mostly dry?

If conditions are dry, my assesment is the walkoff traverse looks like it would be no problem, and easier than the downclimb. Is that fair?

Any condition updates on MR after the earthquake?

Re: Whitney MR question
aastro #57615 07/06/20 05:46 PM
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Hi aastro,
This topic is for questions about the Non-Trail Mountaineers Route (aka MR), that goes up the North Fork Lone Pine creek, past Lower Boy Scout Lake (LBSL), near Upper Boy Scout Lake, and near Iceberg Lake. Water crossings on the MR are minimal, the trickiest is at LBSL, but it is usually accomplished by hopping on rocks. You cross the NF twice below LBSL, too, but those usually aren't a problem.

Water crossings on the Main Trail, by this time of the summer, should be easy. Nothing more than ankle-deep, but maybe no trouble at all -- we need to get some current reports on that. If you're doing the Main Trail, I would take an extra pair of socks in case you get wet feet.

Not sure where you saw any thigh/waist-deep reports. Those aren't anywhere on the Mt Whitney access trails.

Re: Whitney MR question
Steve C #57618 07/06/20 07:17 PM
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Thanks Steve.

Yes, we are headed up the Mountaineers Route next week. I've read a zillion past trip reports, maybe I was getting myself confused. Good to know the crossings will not be a concern.

I have not seen any reports or chatter on the Mountaineers Route since the earthquake. I've seen the webcam and seems like plenty of snow in the chute, but wondering what the conditions are like these days.

Last edited by aastro; 07/06/20 07:21 PM.
Re: Whitney MR question
aastro #57628 07/07/20 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by aastro
A couple more questions to pile on:

What are the water crossings like? (we are headed up 7/11/20, but for general knowledge) I see some reports mention putting on water shoes, some saying they can be thigh/waist deep, and some don't even mention them at all. I don't mind taking boots off, but would water shoes be a good idea? Or will having poles and rock/log hopping ability going to keep me mostly dry?

In a trip report years ago, someone here posted that the first water crossing was like doing delicate acrobatics (or something like that). I found that hilarious, but true. You cross over a tree branch holding on to another set of branches. I keep my cell phone in zip lock bags in case I fall in, which so far has not happened.

Below the E-ledges there is another crossing with a waterfall. You really can not avoid getting wet there. I have taken my boots off so I can cross the ledges with dry feet.

The water level will depend on time of day and day of year, but up the North Fork I've never had to wade through waist deep. As Steve said, Lower Boy Scout Lake is tricky, although it is about walking across logs/rocks. If you fall in, it will be at least waist deep.

Above LBSL the water crossings are not deep, but slippery and spread out.

Originally Posted by aastro
If conditions are dry, my assesment is the walkoff traverse looks like it would be no problem, and easier than the downclimb. Is that fair?

The final 400 is not so difficult. The deaths on the 'easy walkoff' in the past few years scare me.

Originally Posted by aastro
Any condition updates on MR after the earthquake?

I *might* be up there next week. Will report back if I get to hike this again.

Re: Whitney MR question
futbol #57630 07/07/20 09:50 AM
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futbol's description of the two crossings below the Ebersbacher ledges are right on. I have taken the north side (Rockwell shortcut) several times. It completely bypasses those two crossings.

Originally Posted by futbol
Originally Posted by aastro
If conditions are dry, my assesment is the walkoff traverse looks like it would be no problem, and easier than the downclimb. Is that fair?

The final 400 is not so difficult. The deaths on the 'easy walkoff' in the past few years scare me.

The deaths on the walkoff occur when the slope just past the start of the Final 400 is iced over. Then it is deadly. Last one to die there meant to go down the Main Trail, since his overnight gear was near Trail Camp. In his disorientation at the summit, he followed tracks down the north side and slipped trying to cross that steep icy section. When there is no ice or snow, it is easy.

By the way, a short trip report here: http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbth...aineers-route-7-4-20-to-7-6-20#Post57629

Re: Whitney MR question
Steve C #57631 07/07/20 11:19 AM
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Just did the MR route yesterday 6 July, MT down. Did it in running shoes, stayed on the left side in the chute to avoid the snow, loose rock and sand was tough, but the 3 other folks going up in the snow with crampons were post holing. Choose your poison. Final 400 o.k., Went up the left side just a bit, then went too far right, had to come down about 100 feet vertical. My recommendation (your mileage may vary), Start left, at the last place you can cross to the right safely, before the hard snow/ice, go to the right, stay close to snow on the rock and work your way up. Walk off still to much snow.
The main trail had a few places with rock, but a nice walk talking to the folks suffering but happy....

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/CUW9MffTdGfHkrGD6[/img]


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Re: Whitney MR question
climby_climber #57632 07/07/20 11:36 AM
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Beware of loose rock on the MR, especially as things melt out. There was a bad accident last August: Mountaineers Route Broken Leg (Inyo SAR). A large boulder rolled over a climber, breaking their leg in a nasty way.

The CA National Guard had to inch their Chinook into the gully to hoist the patient out. Amazing flying, to say the least!
[Linked Image]

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