Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion EXPOSURE & OTHER DIFFICULTY COMPARED

In another thread, at least two posters opined that the exposure of Angel's Landing was more bothersome to them than the exposure of Half Dome (the cables).

I am curious about both exposure and other difficulty on the final 400 of the Mountaineer's Route as compared to other places.

For those of you who have experience with the applicable places, how would you compare the exposure of the Mountaineer's Route with Angel's Landing?

And how would you compare the difficulty (independent of the exposure) between those two places?

I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has climbed both the Mountaineer's Route and the Summit Trail of Camelback Mountain in Phoenix. (The Summit Trail starts from the west and goes up 1,200 feet in 1.2 miles.) I was surprised at the arm and leg workout I got and am curious as to if that isn't similar to the Mountaineer's Route.

(Absent the exposure, aren't all 3 places mentioned basically Class 2, and more or less the same in difficulty in that respect?)

my two cents:

Angels Landing (and Half Dome) - all you have to do is stay on the trail and not get bumped off the two foot wide sections where there are tourists. There are cables and/or chains on both in spots. Yes there is deadly exposure one step away, but so is there climbing a tall ladder in your backyard. The difference is 10 feet versus thousands, so the fear factor and vertigo are important.

Mountaineer's Route Final 400 - No trail. A rock scramble. A few spots of class 3 in there, using all 4 hands and feet. Not as much of a "straight down" feeling, but the combination of factors might make the MR seem harder. Going up of course is easy. Coming down feels dicey. Glad I was with someone who knew one of the many routes.

If someone had never had experience with any of these, I would rate them, in terms of novices and in what order one should do them, as this:
do Angels Landing and/or Half Dome first to have some exposure before doing the MR. And don't forget, the Ledges probably offer as much pucker factor as the Final 400.

I have never completed the MR. However, I do up 1,000'/mi. pretty regularly and up 1,800' and 2,400'/mi. all winter long and frequently during the summer. The former is no problem but the latter makes my Achilles sit up and take notice. The shoulder strain is an issue during the winter but that has more to do with heavier pack weights. Everything depends on what you do regularly...1,000'/mi use to be daunting, now it's ho-hum.

I plan to do the MR this summer for the first time. If I go with a bunch of other MR noobs, the plan will be to return via the trail.

I'm "hoping" to be a noob in early July, then possibly a sophomore later in July. Same plan: up the MR, down the trail. When are you going?

Difficulty for me ranked in order from the hardest to easiest:
1) MR
2) Angel's Landing
3) HD Cables

I'm a little curious as to why people say the final 400 on Whitney is class 3 and not 4. I can't see how you'd get up there without using your hands. I used hands the entire way up, only for support, not to pull myself, but I used them nonetheless. Any fall up there would be fatal I think. If hitting the rock doesn't get you, the time it takes for SAR to come probably will...but that's just my amateurish opinion.

No, none of them are class 2, I can say that for sure.

I thought hiking where using your hands is necessary was class 3, and 4th class is where ropes and technical gear is pretty much necessary for most climbers.

...but I may be wrong.

Steve,
Maybe I'm wrong, but I always looked at it like anything that requires a rope and is technical to be class 5. Falls on a class 4 is likely fatal and you have to turn in to go down. Falls on a class 3 would be serious injury.

From www.14ers.com:



From Wikipedia's entry for "Yosemite Decimal System":



Also, notwithstanding the above standards, keep in mind that each person's experience and/or comfort level with exposure may vary widely and thus may play a role in how they perceive the assumed class of a particular route (whether or not that perception is accurate). Over the years, I've read descriptions of the Final 400 on both boards that range from "difficult Class 2 with a little Class 3 thrown in" up to "Class 4" (as far as I can remember, I don't think anyone has called it Class 5). These variations have almost always resulted from the widely varying experience (or lack thereof) of the persons involved. Also, the perceived (if not actual) difficulty levels sometimes vary by geographic region, depnding on what people in each region are used to as it relates to the available level of difficulty in each respective region.

CaT

Angel's Landing:



Half Dome:



Final 400 (various conditions):



 
 


Essentially, safety measure can be employed more easily on AL and HD, using a via ferrata system or the like.

Cheers,
L

Hey, that's Ellen.

Joe,

When I'm in shape. I'm about 6 weeks from being in reasonable shape...for me. Hopefully, life, illness and injury don't get in the away for a while.

Personally, I like mid to late September because it is cooler and there are fewer peeps.

Hey, I was going to say the same thing.

Wow, Laura, what a great set of pictures for a perfect comparison!

This post will make a great point of reference.

So when guys like Ueli Steck, Alex Honnold et al. climb the faces of El Capitan and Half Dome without rope, does that make them Class 4 ?

I was thinking of trying the Angels Landing hike this July, thinking it would be less scary than Half Dome. Now I am a little worried I might freak. Can anyone reassure me that its not that bad, considering I survived Half Dome with only a few bad dreams? Or should I look for another hike in Zion with less fear factor ?

Would a failure to reach the top of Angels Landing mean don't bother with the Whitney MR ?

The only way to overcome your fear factor is to do it.

Upon arriving at the the HD cables the first time, my response was "no way!". I tried it anyway after watching others for a couple of minutes, and was glad I did. Now my fear factor for HD cables has converted into a highly-focused awareness of my surroundings. Whenever I do something like this for the first time, and just push through it, it then becomes easier to do the next time.

"Failure" on one trail does not means not trying another. You try each trail on its own merits, go as far as you can, and perhaps you will end up on the summit. But even if you don't, the experience getting there will be worth it, and your next goal will be to go back and go a little further up the next time. You keep trying until you make it.

I assume your "Class 4" question about Honnold, et al. was tongue-in-cheek. ;)

CaT

Nah, it just makes them "hikers" and not "climbers"...

When I hiked up to AL and HD, I was pretty terrified of exposure (and still get that way sometimes!). I held onto those chains and cables with a death grip, but i went for it, forcing myself to breathe and concentrate on what I was doing. It was really hard to keep the fear at bay, but I did, and I was glad I did it. For me, it also helped that I was essentially solo on both hikes. That way, the only pressure I felt was from myself.

I think the exposure of AL feels entirely different than the MR, so I would say no to your final question, but that's from my own perspective. You may react completely differently once up there yourself.

-L

It's not that bad. Looks worse than it is. Any place with scary exposure will have a chain. I only say it's harder than HD because the terrain has a lot of loose dirt, aka, more chances for you to slip versus the rough granite at HD or Whitney.

IMO, if you freak out at AL, you should not attempt the MR as there are no ropes or chains to help you out.

I would not consider the HD route rough granite. All that polished granite is slick from people usage. I have seen people turn around part way up the cables on HD not from fear, but from difficulty with their feet slipping. Their too-smooth, grip-less tennis shoes (or flip flops!) were not good enough. Lug soles are better.

All interesting posts thus far . . . I'm hoping to see more comment specifically on the exposure comparison between the Mountaineer's Route (which might be sub-divided between the final 400 and Ebersbacher Ledges), Angel's Landing, and Half Dome. AND the difficulty comparison between those three as well as Camelback Mountain (I wouldn't say exposure is an issue with Camelback).

Laura, you've apparently experienced those first three. I think you are looking at the MR with the most pucker factor, but it wasn't clear. How would you rate the three in comparison with each other? Or -- maybe they're all essentially equal in your mind?

And -- others -- same thing for you if you've been on all three.

Now, clarifying "difficulty" -- throwing out exposure AND length of hike/climb -- I'm still curious as to how all 4 places compare (considering only the final 400 on the Mountaineer's Route). I've done Angels Landing and Camelback, and based on those visits and what I've read and seen about the other two, I'm postulating that they are all essentially equal in difficulty. Laura -- and others -- what say you about that? (To me, they all appear to be about the same in using both your hands and feet to the max, giving you a strenuous time, and keeping your mind busy finding your route.)

(This is what you call long term sneaky research in anticipation of a possible Mountaineer's Route visit in 3 years at age 70!)

I had no problems with cheap Big 5 trail runners. If they're going up there in Addidas tennis shoes and slippers...well, that's just asking for it. I stand by my original assertion.



See my previous posts, I've been on all three. They all have big drops. What makes HD and AL easier is that it gives a person "peace of mind" through the cables and chains if required. It looks a lot scarier in pictures. I didn't even have to use the chains on AL. If you're comfortable on AL, I think you'll be comfortable on the MR.

Physically for me the MR was over before it started. HD was the most difficult simply because of the fatigue from standing there waiting forever for people to move.

EDIT: and I salute you sir for planning this at 70. Hope I can still do all these things at that age. Congrats!

Let's see if I can separate the two questions:

1) Pucker factor. All three climbs are different animals, so they can make you nervous is very different ways.
Angel's Landing (AL) has a very steep drop-off and a narrow walkway, and from what I remember, the chain was only on the inside. Stepping away from the chain was the scariest part for me, but the trail itself is level due to steps in the rock.

Half Dome (HD) is steep, with a drop off directly behind/in front of you, and the rock is slick. But you are in the middle of a broad face with something "solid" onto which you can hold/clip in.

The MR Final 400 (F4) only really felt exposed to me when it was full of snow. There are ledges galore in the chute (when melted out) and the scrambling/walking between the ledges really isn't too bad. The most difficult spot, I thought was the entrance (in summer). It's about 3-4 moves of Class 3 on some moderately positive holds which are easier to grab if you're taller. There is also the crack nearer the notch, but I've only done that when there has been snow to raise the entry and then jam my crampons/boots into the crack.

Again, YMMV based on what freaks you out the most. For me, it's edges, not heights. Sometimes, even a 10ft drop will freak me out if I'm too close to the edge. I've heard of accomplished technical climbers (gym) getting sketched on the F4.

2) "DIfficulty" of the climb.

AL: 5 miles RT, the first 2 miles of the trail are paved (!!). Gain of <1500 vertical feet. Strenuous because of the steepness, but it ends quickly. Summit elevation: 5785 ft. (Plenty of O2)



Angel's Landing Description

HD: 14+ miles (via Mist Trail), 4800 vertical. Short stretches of serious up, but great spots to rest and cruise (Vernal Falls, top of Nevada Falls, skirting Little Yosemite Valley, base of the cables). A full day, and the down can be as brutal as the up on quads and toes. Summit elevation: 8842 ft (higher but still quite moderate, can cause some difficulties if not acclimated)

Half Dome Info

MR: Mileage depends on who you ask. Doug swears it's <4 miles, I think it's closer to 6. 6100 vertical, topping out at 14,500ft give or take 8 feet. While in snow there may be a boot track, and in summer there is a use trail, this is the Mountaineer's Route, and requires some route finding as you trudge along. To me, this adds substantially to the "difficulty". Altitude plays a major role: you start just under the final elevation of HD, and climb to where rocks and marmots and birds like to hang out. You hit the scrambling section when you are both exhausted from slogging up from Iceberg Lake and exhilarated to be so close to the summit.

Wow, that's probably more detail than anyone wanted, but there it is...

-L

Nice picture of Angels Landing, Laura. They call the squiggly switchbacks "Wally's Wiggles". They used an earth-tone concrete to pave that section.

Here's my rating: I have done all three, and I don't usually get intimidated by heights.

I'd rate Angels Landing the least intimidating. There were entire families up there! The exposed part is fairly level trail. As Laura says, if you step away from the chains and off the trail, that would be dangerous. I don't think I even used the chains.

Half Dome cables is next. There, if you let go, you're going to hurtle down the granite. So you MUST hang on! But the cable is there, and it is strong. Except when it is so cold that your hands freeze and you can't grip, or wet and slippery, you're ok.

The Final 400 on Whitney: It is all up to you. Still not THAT bad from exposure, but you must pick your own hand and footholds. There is no obvious route, so you have to look around and decide where is best to go. Takes more care and watchfulness, in my thinking.

I'm the same way. 10ft doesn't usually bother me, but even dropping into the top of a steep run while snowboarding sometimes freaks me out if it has a pronounced edge.

How crowded does Angels Landing get on weekends? When I did HD there weren't too many people on the cables. However, one of the times I've been most sketched out while hiking was on the Mist Trail below Vernal Falls at 10AM on a Saturday with several hundred of my fellow nature lovers. (We were headed to Nevada Falls and got a late start) There was a person on pretty much every step, and there were quite a few people with hiking poles who were using them to painstakingly haul themselves up the wet steps. I kept wondering how many people they would take out if their pole slipped. There were also a lot of people who needed to stop and rest every few steps, and many would stand in the middle of the trail instead of picking a wide step and scooting off to the side so people could pass safely. If Angels Landing gets crowded I'm thinking it could look like a bad combination of that and the HD cables.

Angels Landing looks the worst to me not because of difficulty or actual risk, but because there isn't any comforting wall of rock to stare at when the vertigo kicks in. The final 400 of the MR, OTOH, looks like fun.

As Steve said , whole families up there. I have been up there with our kids when they were grade schoolers. Went back another time when they were college age and wife turned around part way up because it was Easter weekend and so many people running, jostling, passing each other that she was afraid of getting bumped off. Sounds like HD. But not the MR.

In terms of exposure -
I would rate Half Dome as the most intimidating. Margin for error is minimal and your brain knows it. This always instills trepidation and fear in me. I realize there are safety cables and wooden steps. But a slip and fall could prove instantly deadly.

MR - Exposure is minimal. Without snow and ice the final 400 is an easy and fun class III scramble. Only a few spots where a slip and fall could result almost certain death. It can be a bit intimidating when you first drop back into the chute from the summit. But once you are taking a few feet at a time instead of looking at the whole section, the fear is quickly overcome. Of course all this changes when snow and ice are present and it can quickly become a mountaineering adventure only to tackled by people with complete mountaineering skills and training. I cannot compare to HD in this case because you would never catch me trying to summit HD with cables down and ice/snow on the granite slab.

Angels Landing -
Minimal exposure and class II the whole way. A fall in any of the approach and summit will not likely result in death/serious injury. The exposure can seem intimidating as you approach from the subdome but the actual climbing sections are well routed and protected. The whole hike can be done without hands, but the handrail chains are a nice comfort and add a nice protection feeling.

Results may vary from hiker to hiker - just my .02c worth.

HD - 3x
MR - 27x
AL - 1x

+1 Well said.

2600fromatari -- I appreciate your acknowledgment of my plans at age 70 (2015). But lets wait to see if the chicken actually gets hatched! I'm pretty sure I'll consider the Mountaineer's Route ONLY if I can find someone familiar with the route who would enjoy accompanying me (I've already lobbied Steve and am considering lobbying Laura .) I will want to day hike it going up the MR and down the main trail. If I decide against the MR then it's likely I'll do my second day hike of the main trail (first time was in 2004).

I'm not nearly so frequent a hiker of big routes as many of the people on this board, but I will be doing a rim to rim day hike of the Grand Canyon this October and promise a trip report.

Laura -- dynamite picture of Angel's Landing. I have a few pictures relevant to this thread (particularly one of a section of Camelback) I'd like to post but my understanding is that they have to be online to be linked to in posts here (right Steve?).

Also, Laura, fear not your "more detail", at least as far as this man is concerned. (Anyone who knows me will attest to the fact that I go by the mantra, "Why bother with a few words when 1,000 or so will do better?")

Tomcat rc -- I'm not sure what your "3X" (for HD - Half Dome), "27X" (for Mountaineer's Route), and "1X" (for Angel's Landing) mean at all. Could you elaborate, please?

Everyone -- comments all very interesting and I hope we get some more. It doesn't look like a Camelbacker has chipped in yet (maybe no Camelbacker has read the posts yet).

My obviously subjective thoughts based on what I know and have read thus far are that -- at least for me -- the "pucker factor" (related to exposure) is probably going to feel about the same for me at any of the 4 locations cited (I've so far only been to one of them -- Angel's Landing (other 3 locations MR final 400, MR E Ledges, Half Dome). That did not bother me that much and I'm thinking I'd likely have that same feeling for the other three locations). I'm thinking that the "difficulty" also is going to probably feel about the same to me at any of the 4 locations cited (the legs and arms workout appeared to be about the same for me at both Angel's Landing and Camelback Mountain and I haven't read anything yet to show me that it would be significantly easier or harder at Half Dome or the final 400).

(Did I say something earlier about a propensity to say a lot?! :))

I think Tomcat means he has done those "X number of times", meaning he's done the MR 27 times.

If Steve or Laura is not available, I'll be more than happy to keep you company if my work schedule permits.

I still think it's awesome you're planning this. People I know more than half your age aren't as adventurous or in shape for it. Rock on.

Whitney Fan wrote:
> I have a few pictures relevant to this thread (particularly one of a section of Camelback) I'd like to post but my understanding is that they have to be online to be linked to in posts here (right Steve?).

WF: You can upload pictures directly to the WhitneyZone picture gallery, so the are online. Then they can be displayed in these posts. If you open the Picture Gallery, at the top you see the line:
* * * * Instructions for storing pictures: Uploading Pictures to the Picture Gallery. * * * *
Click on the link and it will take you to a thread with step-by-step instructions to upload the pictures, followed by steps to include them in your posts.

Now... unless your pictures are only on paper, it is just a matter of following the steps. The hardest part is understanding how to "navigate to folders and devices connected to your computer". If you can find files on your computer, that is the biggest hurdle. Good luck!

And by the way, send me a reminder this fall.... I've been itching to do a GC R-2-R myself.

Thanks, WhitneyFan. The pic is not one of mine, got it from the site referenced below it. But I was impressed with the angle myself!

You said this was next year, right?

Whitney Fan. I climbed the Mt Route at age 70 ( 3 weeks short of being 71) with no difficulty. In fact, I was following the legend Bob Rockwell who led our group of 4 and Bob is a couple of years older than I am. The ledges were of no particular difficulty either but this was in August and there was no snow or ice. We used no ice axes, technical gear or anything other than alot of water and snacks plus hiking poles.

I don't think you need to be at all gun-shy about climbing that route as long as you have done your training and altitude preparation and take it slowly and with caution.

2600fromatari -- I like to think my intellect is my biggest asset, but it undoubtedly went south with my failing to understand the "X"'s. Your explanation has got to be the correct one. I appreciate your potential availablity to do the MR with me some day -- and I appreciate your compliment, once again, about my ambitions given my age. (Those ambitions seemed to be in play Saturday night when I headed home at 7:30 AM in the morning after a night at a local Las Vegas club!)

Steve -- thanks so much for your revelation that I apparently CAN post some pictures here without using an external web site to host them. I'll do just that in another post. And regarding your possibly doing the rim to rim hike at the Grand Canyon . . . were you implying you might do one THIS fall? If so, unless your planning to camp (and I haven't researched those options), be advised that reservations for north and south rim hotels must be made WAY in advance. (I made mine a full year or more in advance.) I doubt that you'd be able to reserve at the North Rim (with only one hotel) for this fall at this time.

Laura -- when you say "You said this was next year, right?", I'm not sure if you are referring to the rim to rim hike (which will be THIS year) or my potential Mountaineers Route hike (which will be not NEXT year but in 2015!). If that doesn't answer your question please let me know.

CMC2 -- looks like we both are refusing to "grow up", huh?! Your assessment of being able to do the MR mirrors my thinking.

Here are some pictures to illustrate some things previously discussed in this thread.

Overall view of the last 1/2 mile of Angel's Landing:



A section of that last 1/2 mile without chains:



And a section of it with chains:



Finally, a portion of the trail up Camelback Mountain. From what I've seen of pictures of the "final 400" on the Mountaineer's Route, is that route much different in terms of using your hands and feet than what you see here? (Granted, the exposure on the MR is different.)



(Thanks again, Steve, for the good steer to me about how to post these shots and include them in my posts.)

A few more pics of the chained route On AL. yes, the flower off the side shows the exposure, but don't step over there.

I have never been to Camelback, but the final 400 MR is harder/more intimidating than those pics of Camelback

I haven't done the MR or Camelback, but from that pic of Camelback, it looks like not only is it much less steep with no exposure, there are no route finding skills needed. You just trot up the rocks any which way. And someone even has their little dog!

Hi amg,

Do you imply that a dog can't get up the Mountaineers route?

I've never done it, so I don't know. But it looks like it would be a horrible idea. And did you see the size of the dog in the posted photo?

Great pix. I'm feeling better about my 1st ever AL hike coming up soon on May 3rd.Bty, I recently booked a nice room just outside the Park at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.

Angels Landing is overrated Frank. Once you're done with it, the place you need to visit is the Narrows. It's a very cool experience and hike. It's not strenuous or has cool drop offs to show your friends, but it's one of my most memorable hikes. It was just fun sloshing through the river with the canyon walls towering above you on both sides. Just make sure to check the flood warnings before entering and watch the color of the water.

Crappy cellphone pictures, but you get the idea:

Yes, the Narrows hike is truly memorable. But takes a lot more preparation:
Permits required, and there is a tight quota. And you have to arrange for a shuttle to the trail head.

My group had planned on backpacking it and spending a night, but several spooked about leaving our mountain bikes unattended in the park for an overnight, so we switched and day hiked it. I think the day hike was perfect. We did the hike in September.

I whined about the rough rocky main Whitney trail. Very uncomfortable on the feet. I imagine some parts of that river are rocky and slippery.

You're referring to the Narrows hike, right?

I did a Google Image search for "narrows hike zion" and came up with these.

This one is from that page....


I think about 1/3 of the total distance you are sloshing through the river, most ankle-deep. But one section was chest deep. The rest is rocky river shoreline. I wore old hiking boots and tossed them after the hike. Others on our hike wore trail runners or just running shoes. You can rent water-hiking boots just outside of Zion.

Hiking poles are mandatory -- you are constantly working your feet over river rock. Some nice gravel, sometimes 12-inch round and slippery rock.

I'm a little late to the discussion, but per my experience the MR is in a whole different class than the other 2. Angels (aside from the crowd factor -- I was lucky enough to be there in October) is a piece of (angel) cake. I did HD 25 years ago, and maybe the granite was less slick back then? Anyway, I thought it was easy and the chains were unnecessary, and this was before I had done any class 3.

With the MR, on the other hand -- you definitely need to keep your wits about you. It looks a lot worse than it is and, really, the hardest move is to get over the rock blocking the entrance to the final 400. But there was one ledge that I traversed that was pretty narrow.

The class ratings and the way they are described is sort of subjective. For instance, on Mt. Russell, a slip would be not just fatal, but cataclysmic, and yet the actual climbing is mostly class 2, with a little moderate class 3.

Like all puppies around the world would then attack the nearest baby if you fell?

> not just fatal, but cataclysmic

I think it's the difference between maybe a broken bone and...   picking up parts  

Finding parts.

Oh, you'd find them all right: they'd all be in Splatter Lake.

Much easier Frank. The rocks aren't sharp, but are slippery. As Steve said, a trekking pole is a must. The currents can get strong at time and will want to knock you off your feet. The poles will prevent you from doing many face plants into the water.

I never did understand why the local shops advocated one big walking stick instead of two trekking poles for the Narrows. I took two poles, and my feet were more battered and swollen the next day than they were at the end of the Sierra Challenge in '10.

It also started raining later in the evening after I day-hiked the Narrows. I felt really sorry for the people behind me who had opted to do it as an overnight. The river was blood-red and scary.

Pole vaulting over the bigger rocks brought in fresh by thunderstorms.

Years ago I hiked the narrows with a scout group that got a late start and spent the night in the canyon without planing to. What doesn't kill you makes for better stories.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Yes, the commercial shuttle service we used, got us out there at dawn. It was quite a long day, finishing around 5 PM.

I'll settle this: Just got off MR with my friend Mike, who has done all three now.

The MR is the sketchiest.

Discussion over.

Shouldn't you add: "in the dark"?

This debate seems to be settled. Seems like I'm a lot more familiar with the MR now. Gotta do it.

You are!

So confused, I thought the photoshop moose head avatar was you. But there are two of you now.

Too early for this.

There can be only one.

Thank goodness.

Start of a fan club? I'm trying hard to get her to notice before I change it back. Hope she gets a kick out of it.

I know I did!
Love it! Laughing so hard! Sorry Laura, it IS funny!
Saw this during lunch with a mouth full of food -- bad timing!
OMG!! I can't stop laughing!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, is it not?

CaT

It's MooseTracks' evil twin!

 

Yes.
"Evil", because the only thing it's missing is Laura's winning smile!!

CaT

post removed

From the "how to scare the s%^& out of Laura" files...

where is this?

East Face?

North Face of University. TR later tonight.

Very cool!
Free solo?

We brought a 35m 9mm rope, which we used later on a snow traverse. But here everything was in/on the pack: snowshoes, ice axe, crampons, poles, rope... :o

Yeah, I thought all i saw in that pic was you and a whole lotta air!

CaT

I just returned from my trip to Zion, Bryce, and Grand Canyon. The Narrows was not considered 'cause the water aspect of that hike made my wife nervous. Maybe at another time for me. Our first hike was Angels Landing. I was surprised to find that the final .7 mile of trail was at least 10 feet wide average. There were very few spots where you could look down the edge. We quickly made the summit focusing on the trail. However the exposure on another Zion hike was a factor. We combined Observation Point and Hidden Canyon. We felt we were "on the edge" many times. And at Grand Canyon constant attention was a must or your next step could be 5,000 ft. We went a short ways down South Kaibab Trail and also down Grandview Trail to Horseshoe mesa.

I recently completed both the Angels Landing hike and the Half Dome hike within a couple of days of each other. I found the Angels Landing hike much easier than I anticipated. There really weren't many spots where you could fall far unless you were doing something really stupid. Although I did come across a few fit looking adults that didn't attempt the last section because they thought it was too scary for them. Also a few terrified looking people sitting on their backsides trying to slide back down a few tricky sections. Honestly I didn't see any fear factor on this hike ......

However Half Dome I found to be quite different. I have hiked half dome before and found it scary on the sub dome and cables sections but I thought this time it wouldn't be so bad knowing what i was in for. But it was just as terrifying as the first time. About a quarter of the way up the cables i nearly turned around but decided to keep going for some reason. Then a little further up the guy directly in front of me pulled out one of the support posts accidently. Now that was scary as he started to slide back gradually towards me. Is this really happening I thought. Then I said to myself stay calm, assess the situation and act. First thought was should I saying anything to the guy. But what would I say - can I help ? be careful ? then i thought i could try to support him if he slid back to me, then I thought I could move both hands to the other side where the posts were still in tact. Then I thought I am going straight down when the guy is secure and safe. But within a few seconds and before I had to act at all I realised the guy wasnt panicking, knew exactly what to do and did it. He pulled himself back up to where the post should be and put it back in place. Boy that was a scary few seconds though.

I also hiked to the top of Clouds Rest the day after Half Dome. While it was gruelling because my legs were still a little sore I found very little fear factor compared to what I had read about the final ridge. Again if you rock hopped correctly without being stupid there is really no place you would fall more than a few feet.

Anyway that was just my thoughts on the topic.