Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Oklahoma Teen Inspired By ‘Into the Wild’ Missing In Oregon

Latest news here.

"Meanwhile, another helicopter search of the area on Steens Mountain where Self's truck was abandoned found nothing either. Another ground search is planned the first weekend in May."

OK, I see your point. I think that you are correct that there are differences between the two but there are also several similarities. Each had a similar desire to wander and live apart from a consumption based society. Each had the desire for human contact but really didn't conform to society's norm. Each had family issues. McCandless exhibited selfishness by cutting off contact resulting in parental worry and Ruess had more regular contact with his family but played on his family's emotions and took more financially and emotionally than he gave.

My point is that many of us humans that are conformed to society have a curiosity about adventurers that 'drop-out.' Maybe because there is a part of many of us that wish we could do the same thing. Why else would Walden still be popular over 150 years after it was written? Thoreau only roughed it a bit compared to others. Mountain men, pioneers and explorers all lived tough, solitary lives for short stints like Thoreau but he was able to put into compelling words his experience. I think we care so much about these stories because there is a part of us that wish we could try the same thing.

Very well put, CaliHawk.

No need to demonize someone because they wrote a book and made a movie about him (and they made a lot of money on him going into the wild).

Whoa, hold on there fellas. No is demonizing McCandless because a book was written about him. Demonizing the idolizing writer and filmmaker, maybe, but they both deserve that. Simply casting a different light on McCandless in spite, literally, of the book and movie.

The similarities between McCandless and Reuss, even if apt, are quite beside the point. They do not go to the ethical question of going into the wilderness completely unprepared, the point on which they were polar opposites, and the point on which this discussion of Dustin Self took off. ANd I don't think they are in fact particularly apt. McCandless's writing's and actions show me an immature, wishful, naaivew and largely deluded sense of what he was about. His lack of real preparation Reuss's on the other hand show an incredibly mature, self aware intention and purpose, not to mention ability.

In fact, there is not a bit of evidence that anything untoward happened to Reuss. It is not easy to disappear without a trace, and the circumstantial evidence on Reuss is completely consistent with his having completely succeeded in finding his dream.

I would also be very careful about citing Thoreau on this point. It is a 20th century fantasy that Thoreau went to Walden Pond to drop out, rough it, live in a state of nature or anything of the kind. He stayed quite closely engaged with society, including the justice system, and in fact conducted his most famous exercise of civil disobedience, while residing at Walden Pond:

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practise resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and be able to give a true account of it in my next excursion."

I don't see anything here about wilderness, dropping out, living off the land, or the like, and I don't think Emerson, or anyone else that he hung out with a couple of times a week during this period, would have either.

Dog, not sure why you think the author and director were idolizing McCandless. Sure, they probably embellished for dramatic purposes, but they tell a story of a troubled young man with deep emotional family scars, who embarked on a search for a deeper meaning. The classic disenfranchised youth trying to find himself. He wasn't into drugs, he was responsible enough to finish college, gave away a small fortune to charity, then took off in an old car on a wild adventure. He met lots of interesting people, worked hard at manual labor, kayaked the Colorado river into Mexico, hopped trains, and basically lived his dreams for a brief time in his youth. The Alaska misadventure was not the whole story. I think that part of the story was portrayed as more sad than heroic. To me, the lesson is that you can't learn everything from books, that you have to experience life to learn. But take your chances carefully and don't shun help.

This thread reminds me of why I'm an engineer, and why I was frustrated with liberal arts teachers, there are so many ways to look at things and there's no right or wrong answer. At least we aren't being graded.

One thing that makes sense to me is that if a person never embarked on a wild youthful adventure to get this out of their system while they were young, then they might be more judgmental about McCandless and Dustin Self. For those who went out and did it, there is a different perspective.

I'm not sure why you think Everett Reuss was all that different. There are books and a movie about him, very similar vagabond story. He died at age 20, not exactly a seasoned old wilderness expert. Certainly more experienced than McCandless or Dustin Self, but still, he took his chances walking into very hostile territory and he lost. The name of his 2012 movie hints at similar embellishment: "Everett Reuss, Wilderness Song" I see a lot in common amongst these guys.

Interesting article about his life and 2012 movie "Wiilderness Song"

Edited to add link, correct typos and a little more

Now that's absolutely golden . . .

Thanks, BD. In fact, now that I think of it, I've seen most of Ali's fights on video, and I actually had my picture taken with Jack Dempsey: maybe I'll do Everest after all.

I'm gonna rent a couple donkeys and cross the Sahara this July. Maybe they'll make a movie about me.

That's pretty much what Robyn did. Not only did she succeed, but the CD/book is a modern-day classic.

She cheated - four camels and a dog.

If a "cocky, outspoken, daring and stubborn" person succeeds in one of these "lunatic gestures of independence" then they are smart and well prepared. If they die, then they are stupid and ill prepared. I get it.

It was a trip that began as a pure and (many said) lunatic gesture of independence and quickly turned into an all-out battle of wits against the forces of both nature and civilization. Cocky and outspoken, Robyn Davidson's tale is at once the probing journal of a daring and stubborn woman and a wilderness adventure of the most exhilarating sort.

Well, once a sheila gets an idea in her mind...

If you change the wording just slightly, you can apply this statement to business, too.

No, I don't think you do.

Where does Reuss fall in your comment? I am calling him smart and well prepared. Even if he died.

Who called Robyn "smart and well prepared"? I thought "some said lunatic?" In fact, she was raised on a cattle station and spent two years training and preparing with the camels. And oh, yeah, getting National Geographic sponsorship. If anyone did call her "smart and well-prepared" maybe it was because she was , well, smart and well prepared.

As for Reuss, what, did he just grab a couple of donkeys one day hanging around Valparaiso High and take off? He was, as a matter of fact, very well prepared. As attested by his known work and four years of successful experience. And as a matter of fact we don't know whether he died in 1934 or 1994.

So what exactly did McCandless do to get so smart and well-prepared? Read a book on Alaska? Had a conversation with a guy in a grain elevator in South Dakota? Kayaked a flat-water river? You would do a hell of a lot more than that to prepare for even a fully supported trip on the Stampede, even if you weren't committed to hiking its whole length without a map. Even if you were, say, only going 22 miles in and holing up in a bus.

Attacking straw doesn't really advance the discussion, does it?

Dog, we're in total agreement about McCandless and Dustin Self not "doing" enough to be prepared for their adventure. I wrote that over and over, they were not experienced. Experience is what they were looking for, and they got more than they bargained for. For McCandless, it seems he was after a very ambitious experience similar to Lewis and Clark. Since he went alone, perhaps that would be Lewis or Clark.

I think it misses the point to call some of these people smart, others stupid, some heroes, and other others fools based on their level of experience or amount of supplies they had with them or how their adventure turned out. We could continue debating endlessly about IQ scores, level of education, wilderness skills, how many camels or donkeys they took. We could rank them by categories and play Monday morning quarterback forever. No thanks. All of them seem to be reasonably intelligent and it's impossible to be 100% prepared for what they took on.

Each one knew their adventure could turn into a life or death situation, but that's part of what they were after, the adventure of it. They all seem to have deep rooted motivation for their desire to escape society by connecting with wilderness. From that perspective, they are all quite similar. I think it explains the fascination with these stories - that youthful adventurous spirit that we all have (or had) inside us. People don't read these books and watch these movies to go over gear lists, IQ scores, and transcripts.

Live and learn. If you have the capacity to learn, and continually apply those lessons going forward, you're likely to keep on living. If you over-estimate your abilities or under-appreciate risks, things can - and often do - go sideways pretty quickly. Whether it's find-yourself adventures or texting while driving, it often boils down to what degree of practical common sense a person possesses. Geniuses can be "idiots" too - a Mensa membership isn't a guarantee you won't walk distractedly into Manhattan traffic while cogitating on cold fusion.

Then there's always a sub-conscious death-wish that can account for a lot of these how-could-that-happen tragedies. Personally, I think the more alienated or anti-social a person is, the greater the likelihood of an early death.

Cold fusion being the "idiot" part?

Being a Georgia Bulldog, I naturally have a healthy suspicion (and abiding distrust) of all things Georgia Tech. This one had me in tears of hilarity when it happened:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/14/us/geo...-on-fusion.html

So, yeah - "idiot" in that example is very apropos to me . . .

TANSTAAFL!

Recognized that as a Heinleinism immediately, Dave! Re-read Moon just last year.