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Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
wbtravis #40310 09/19/14 03:14 PM
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I believe the NPS is building those cairns as they prepare to build a trail to the summit of Langley. It sounds like there is a good chance day hike permits will be required for Langley eventually.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
KathyW #40319 09/21/14 08:55 AM
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That pile of rocks goes back to at least 2001. I have a picture of them from a Whitney trip in August of that year.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
wbtravis #40320 09/21/14 09:37 AM
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I don't doubt that there was a pile of rocks back then, but the megacairns are new. There are maybe 3-4 of the new megacairns going up to the summit, plus a new NPS sign on the flanks of Langley that explains them. They are, as the poster above explains, about a new NPS effort in that region. Back in July, I had some correspondence with the SEKI Chief Park Ranger about them and the routing that they encouraged, which at least as of July 5, sent people directly over a class 3 chute with some exposure (at least that problem I suspect has been fixed). The saga is explained on a post I did back then on the WPSMB.

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/...=true#Post98155

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Akichow #40322 09/21/14 10:04 PM
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Saw on FB that some folks got turned around at 13,500' on Langley today due to snow.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Akichow #40324 09/22/14 08:11 AM
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Thanks for posting the letter.

I was unaware of the what was going on here.

It is my belief there will continue to be social trails to the peak because what the NPS chose as a route...less steep and shortest. It can't be! The shortest route is the steepest. People will continue to use the shortest route to the summit.

The other problem is one of the trailhead being in the Inyo and the summit in SEKI. SEKI will have to ask the Inyo to impose a quota. If that happens, who is going to enforce it and how? It would have to be with local volunteers and population base is too small for even nominal coverage. Heck, the forest service can't even enforce the Bear Flats Trail closure in SoCal...I saw people preparing to go up there the last two weekends...and cars parked in the usual Bear Flats spots on the way down.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
wbtravis #40325 09/22/14 09:41 AM
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Calder Reid is the answer to "who"



http://www.wildebeat.net/index.cgi/2006/08/

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Ken #40328 09/22/14 06:00 PM
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You got the who, still waiting for the how.

To impose a permit/quota system, you will need a commitment from FS and a whole lot of patrolling volunteers. Without that, it is a waste of time.

I do not see how they can get the resources required from a valley with such a small population where the minimum distance to the trailheads is in excess of 60 miles. Most volunteers I have patrolled with do so close to home to minimize expenses.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Akichow #40351 09/24/14 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Akichow
Saw on FB that some folks got turned around at 13,500' on Langley today due to snow.

Do you know if that was due to it snowing or due to snow/ice on the trail?


Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
63ChevyII.com #40357 09/24/14 03:23 PM
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My group is down to 4 now. I just looked and about half of the reserveable permits are gone (18 left). Are there walk-in permits in addition to these? Do you recommend we get reservable permits while they are available?

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
63ChevyII.com #40359 09/24/14 03:32 PM
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Langley overnight permits are like all other non-Whitney-Main-Trail permits: 40% are held back for walk-in requests, available starting 11 AM the day before the entry date.

This late in the year, I don't think the permits will run out.

By the way, I saw some Langley shots on FB (CA Peaks group):

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
wbtravis #40362 09/24/14 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: wbtravis
You got the who, still waiting for the how.

To impose a permit/quota system, you will need a commitment from FS and a whole lot of patrolling volunteers.


There is already a permit/quota system, in place. How is that enforced?

The only change would be to add the dayhiker element to it. What's the big deal about that?

If overuse of the new trail is the problem, go to a paid reservation system like for Whitney, the infrastructure is already in place. Poof! Instant funding. And you can pretend that Wagbags are required and everything, If the use is not to that level yet, then what's the problem?

Build it and see if they come. Bet they don't, not without some promotion. Never done Langley, but it sounds like a lot more fun as it is than with a trail. And for that matter, a lot more fun than Whitney.

Probably the solution is in marketing rather than in building the trail. Diminish the pressure on Whitney by diminishing the appeal. Create a new Whitney - Langley Zone, promote Langley on its own merits: a little class 2, maybe some 3 lots of different approaches, etc. When you get down to it, aside from the abstraction the Whitney is the higher, isn't Langley the better experience?


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
saltydog #40367 09/24/14 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
When you get down to it, aside from the abstraction the Whitney is the higher, isn't Langley the better experience?


"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"



"aside from the abstraction that Whitney is the higher" IS the only reason that the one and done-rs come from the four corners of the world to tramp through a pish stunk trail strewn with bags filled with dung (rather than any other beautiful place in the range)


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Bee #40368 09/24/14 09:13 PM
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Or maybe this would entice people to hike Langley.

T Johnson posted this on the CA Peaks FB page yesterday:


Click to reveal.. (...Randy sheep...)

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Steve C #40369 09/24/14 10:30 PM
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True confessions. I like the Whitney hike. Okay, I prefer approaching from the West. But I also like the hike up from the East. And I like staying at Trail Camp, where you are guaranteed a fantastic alpenglow morning. And it can be very social at Trail Camp if you want it to be, which is fun. And there are ways to minimize the, shall we say, sanitation challenged aspects of Trail Camp. It is not like I lack options -- I have scoped out a whole host of campsites up and down the trail, including a few fantastic sites that I have found through exploration way off the trail. I know, that must be some form of heresy to admit to finding something to like about Trail Camp.

I also like the Langley hike. That point at which you enter the basin area about 5 miles in is superb. There is the massif in profile, reflected in the lake. The weather always seems to be doing something beautiful and dramatic when that view opens up.

Langley does have a trail all the way to the top. Actually, it has about 50 trails to the top, once you get to, say, 13,000 feet. Sure, you can find class 3 and 4 if you want on Langley. You can also find class 3 and 4 on Whitney if you want. You can also do Langley entirely on class 1, with maybe 50 feet of class 2 or 3 with virtually no exposure. Though you have to poke around a little to find the best route for those 50 feet. And ignore the megacairns for a few seconds.

It's not either/or for me. The mountains are not competing with each other. They are both fun to climb.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Akichow #40370 09/25/14 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: Akichow
It's not either/or for me. The mountains are not competing with each other. They are both fun to climb.

K sounds like one of my favorite authors

They will discover there that height counts for little and that it is the hill that matters...There is something greater. It is the spirit of the hills.
Frank Smythe, The Spirit of the Hills page 51-52

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
saltydog #40371 09/25/14 08:11 AM
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Salty,

It's not that easy. Those who patrol Cucamonga Wilderness can tell you.

You need people...a lot of people. There is not a volunteer base big enough in the Owens Valley to get compliance rates where they need to be...in the very high 90s and you also have interagency problems in play here. Mt Whitney has its high compliance rate not because of there is a permit required for day hiking but because there are boots on the group checking those permits...both volunteer and seasonal rangers.

Mt. Langley will never require a zone stamp, it is just not that popular. People do not plan for the better part of year to get to 14,023' like they do for Mt. Whitney. I know I did not...or for any other Sierra peak.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
wbtravis #40432 09/30/14 02:18 PM
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These pics were posted by a user on the JMT facebook group who hiked Langley last weekend:

on the ascent:




a few hours later during the descent:









It's been getting chilly at the CWD 'weather station' which is at 10,150' elevation. The low temps for 9/27-9/29 were 23, 20 & 23 degrees.

I haven't decided if I'm headed up or not this weekend. I may end up heading to Joshua Tree for an overnight on Quail Mtn, or try the Wonderland of Rocks Traverse.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
63ChevyII.com #40436 09/30/14 06:29 PM
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With this forecast, if it were me, I'd go for it. Carefully and prudently, and prepared to turn around if the weather merited it. (But being me, I'd stay the heck away from Old Army Pass.)

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-118.23947&lat=36.52318#.VCtmqPldWSo

Spot forecast of Langley.

Very very nice.

I am jealous.

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
Akichow #40440 10/01/14 09:18 AM
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yikes, no reserveable permits left for Cottonwood Lakes!

Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5
63ChevyII.com #40456 10/02/14 07:10 AM
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Trip is starting to fall apart on me. No reserveable permits for Langley, people are uncertain if they still want to go and I had to drop off my vehicle at the mechanic's yesterday (vibration in the front end).

I haven't given up on going yet. I am still hoping we can get walk-in permits, but if we drive up to Lone Pine and there are no permits left:

1. For using a stove @ Barcroft Gate, can I pick up a campfire permit @ the visitor center in Lone Pine or do I need to go to the White Mountain Ranger Station?

2. Does 2.5 hours from Lone Pine to Barcroft Gate seem realistic, assuming the road isn't in horrible condition (if we go, I'd be driving a Tahoe with 4wd).

3. Another hike I thought of doing was Mt. Gould (from Onion Valley via Mt. Gould, but we're too close to the arrival date to reserve a campsite. If we were to drive all the way up to Onion Valley and there were no walk-in sites, what are some of our options for camping?

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