Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Saw most people on MR with foam pads on packs

Since it is only snow camping up there, those are probably supplemental and backup pads right?

Portal road has been open since Weds I think. Grabbed a Mountaineering Route permit (Thurs as Fri-Sun were gone). Top lots still closed but completely cleared (waiting for trash collection/bathroom cleaning services to start?). Went up to Lower Boy Scout Lake with dog. Continuous snow starts less than a quarter mile from N Lone Pine Creek junction. Zero acclimitation, altitude nausea as usual, was going to acclimitize on the mountain.

Stupid XTherm Max air pad had a leak and I blamed my dog. I get frightened when she does her go in a circle nesting behavior on my air mattress. But the leak turned out to be a slash on the bottom of the mattress. Now I am confused, did I pop it tearing down my camp a few years ago? I did not want to go up to Iceburg Lake for an extended stay with a leaky mattress so aborted my trip. Plus, altitude nausea was still in effect (even with Diamox).

So now I am thinking that relying on an air mattress on snow is not very smart. Especially with a dog in the tent.

When I backpack in the snow, I usually take a foam mattress AND my inflatable mattress to maximize the R value and provide more separation from the ice and snow.

Don't have a dog to worry about. I have had some slow leaks on the trail (last half of the JMT in '20, for instance). Unfortunately, I've never found a foam pad that works for me by itself (I'm a side sleeper).

I only recently became aware that people sometimes bring both inflatable and foam. What is the thinking? That an inflatable is just too risky by itself? Get a hole and you are basically sleeping straight on the snow? Or is there more to it than that?

When sleeping on snow, the foam pad insulates "some", but not enough. So the second air pad, or a second foam pad.

What combined R-value are the 2 pads? The 1 I have used is warm enough, but I don't think I have really been in temperatures below the upper 20's so maybe you guys are talking about really cold nights?

When layering sleeping pads the R-value just is additive - so if you have one pad with an R value of 2 and one pad of an R value of 3 - that gets you a total R-value for both at 5. To be neutral on snow or in freezing temps you will want roughly a total R value of 5.5 (by the numbers - obviously each person's individual experience might adjust a bit)

That is about what I have thought. But they sell pads with an R-value of 5+, so why bother bringing 2 presumably less insulated ones?

I've got some thoughts. The problem with camping on the snow is that every night feels like a night spent in a cold basement with a groundwater problem. The more insulation you bring, the more pleasant the experience. If you bring two thinner pads, you can spread out both pads, to create some additional dry real estate, to perform camp chores (meal prep, etc.). Later, when it's time to hit the sack, all available pads are shuffled into place, underneath the bag.

I've spent comfortable nights on the snow using just a single closed-cell foam pad. First I lay down a sturdy plastic ground sheet. On top of that I place a full length (72 inches long) foam pad, such as a Z-rest or a Ridgerest pad, folded in half. I place this doubled-up pad underneath my torso, squaring it between my shoulders and my hips. Underneath my legs I'll shove a grunge bag containing my boots, plus my empty backpack. That's enough to keep my legs off the snowy ground. Doing that also prevents my damp boots from freezing solid overnight. If I'm cowboy camping, I tuck my sleeping bag into a bivy sack for some extra warmth. The neat thing about snow-camping is that you can dig hip wells, and sculpt the bed the way you like it, without feeling like a slob. I'm a side-sleeper, too, so this is a real perk.

Everybody's metabolism is a bit different, and the above setup might leave you cold. Still, I've never felt like I was losing heat into the snow underneath me. It's the frigid air all around, that's produces the chilling effect.

If you use a lower R value pad for 85% of your trips, it's way easier/cheaper ot add a $40-50 closed cell pad to that to get to your 5-6 r value for snow compared to buying a whole separate pad that is 5.5+ R value for something you don't use as frequently. Also - the closed cell makes a fantastic big sit pad for eating/resting/etc when on snow to give some insulation and waterproofing when cooking/eating/relaxing outside the tent. I bring a short length closed cell pad on even my summer trips to use more as a big sit pad than insulation at night just because it's comfy to have a little cush to sit on and keep myself out of the dirt in camp each night.

This does make the most sense to me, you can save a little money by having a configurable system of 2 pads instead of specialized equipment for each scenario. Also good point about being able to use the foam pad for sitting outside the tent, inflatables are not great for that.

Okay, going to try two foam pads. Just "Frankenstein-ed" a Z Lite Sol to 25" wide (increased its weight from 14.5oz to 18.1oz). All of my other pads are around 25" (not 20"). Will do the same thing to another. Like you said, Its also nice that you can fold foam pads to double the insulation under your torso. I guess could also go to a single Z LIte (bomber) and the (air) XTherm Max if I really can't stand sleeping on the foam pads. Seems stupid but maybe use the foam pad as a dog protector on TOP of the air mattress.