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#4904 - 06/04/10 10:44 AM Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail
Steve C Offline

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7075
Loc: Fresno, CA
This thread is designed to hold posts displaying pictures and describing the current conditions of the Main Mount Whitney Trail (MMWT).  I hope everyone will contribute.

Please feel free to post pictures of your own or from any source (please post a reference to the original location), so that everyone can come here and easily find/read/see the conditions.

Older posts will be moved as conditions change. (As a result, some posts may appear to answer comments that are no longer in the thread.)

Thanks for everyone's help. Your posting trip reports helps untold numbers of hikers following you.

Older posts moved here:   Whitney Main Trail Conditions 2017 (Old)

Note: Sometimes this thread spans a number of pages. You can click through all the pages, or click here to display all in one page.

#50685 - 07/08/17 05:50 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Flatlander Offline

Registered: 07/08/17
Posts: 1
Loc: Texas
My son (25) and I (58) have a multi-day permit for July 25th. We are hikers, but not snow experienced and this is our first attempt at Mt. Whitney. We have microspikes, but have never used them. Have read some of the recent reports and does anyone have experience to know if the switchbacks will be open? Also, I don't read much about it, but are there any cliff exposures to be worried about other than where the cables are?

#50687 - 07/08/17 12:08 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Flatlander]
Steve C Offline

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7075
Loc: Fresno, CA
Flatlander, there will still be some stretches of snow in two weeks. But more and more people will be tramping a pretty good path in the trail. You will probably be ok with your microspikes, but continue reading the reports.

People are still saying crampons are better than the microspikes.

The cables area is the worst place with the steepest slope exposure.

#50689 - 07/08/17 01:33 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Mountain Goat Offline

Registered: 07/04/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Castaic, California
Hello everyone,
My husband and I successfully made it to the top on July 6 in one-day hike.

I will focus on the conditions of the trail. From the portal to the Trailside Meadows the route is fine. No worries about that part-just enjoy the beauty!

There would be snow on the trail up to Trail Camp. Crampons or micro spikes are necessary there since the snow is slushy and abundant. We planned to use the switchbacks vs. the chute. However, when we approached the chute, the access to the switchbacks was not visible. We decided to do the chute. While climbing it, we saw the cables and climbed up through the snow to the cables to use the switchbacks. The slope to the cables is steep but short, so it is manageable. We got on the switchbacks (you need to scramble up a rock to get to the switchbacks, but it is ok). We walked for 20 min on a dry switchback trail. Then we lost the trail because of a big patch of snow, so we scrambled up some rocks trying to find the trail again. From the rocks where we were standing (still could not see the trail on switchbacks), the only way to find the switchbacks was to walk through a steep field of snow. Since we had micro spikes and hiking poles, and it was dangerous to cross a steep field of slushy snow for us. So, we scrambled up on more rocks, and then walked through the snow to the steepest part of the chute and finished the climb by the chute to the Trail Crest.

We used the chute to descend. Honesty. I want to advice you all to use crampons and an ice ax for ascend and descend on the chute because the snow is slushy and the slope is very steep, and micro spikes of are no good in those conditions. For example, I was wearing micro spikes, and on the way down, the chute the slushy snow gave way and I slid a great distance, but managed to stop the slide with lots of effort. There are rocks on the chute, and it could be a dangerous slide. Crampons and an axe would have helped. If you are willing to glissade, review the techniques and, please, do not wear crampons and have an ice ax.

PS. I actually cried upon reaching the summit - my reaction to the majestic beauty of the mountains and to the sense of accomplishment.
My husband and I did not feel effects of high altitude. It depends on a person, so we were just lucky.

Happy trails, everyone!

#50730 - 07/10/17 06:28 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Zamora Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 1
Loc: UT
My wife and I made it to Trail Crest yesterday (July 9). We took the switchbacks up and down, at least everywhere they are not covered with snow. Would have made it to the Summit, but my legs were cramping my up and I had a big headache (should have prepared better with better fitness and acclimatization). My wife could have easily continued to the summit, but chose to stay with me.

The trail through the cables is passable, but some people will not feel comfortable, and we met one man who turned around because he felt it wasn't safe. My wife and I and 2 others made it without too much trouble, but it is something that I feel should be decided individually... in person. There are also a couple of other snowfields that cover the trail, but in all cases these can be bypassed by scrambling around them, if you don't want to cross them. My wife and I crossed them, but near Trail Crest we bypassed the snow and went straight up to the ridge.

Other things to note... water crossings are a bit of a time sink... we removed our shoes 4 times each way. There is still a lot of snow, and even though we found the switchbacks, it was after hiking on snow for probably about one mile (felt like more). It was pretty warm on the trail and I didn't use the pants and jacket that I brought, but my wife used hers and was glad to have them. We used microspikes and trekking poles and those seemed suitable for our route choices. Oh, and there are a few spots where bugs are an issue, so I recommend bringing repellent. My wife got bit about 10 times - through her shirt and her pants !!

I took pictures and I can post them later today when I get home if people are interested.

We had an amazing day and I am so glad that we came! The scenery along the trail is just stunning, and we saw deer, marmots, pikas, and even a sage hen and her chicks.

Be safe up there. I like what it says at the Portal, something to the effect of... It's more important to return home safely than to make it to the summit.

#50738 - 07/10/17 10:22 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Zamora]
Ruslvmusl Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Lincoln, CA
Originally Posted By: Zamora
I took pictures and I can post them later today when I get home if people are interested.

YES, please post pictures! Our success will start 7/22 and end 7/23! smile

#50739 - 07/10/17 10:24 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Ruslvmusl Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Lincoln, CA
not optimistic to sleep at Whitney Portal night before our climb, any other HIGH elevation (=>8kFT) camp sites near by that dont require a permit?

#50740 - 07/10/17 10:44 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Ruslvmusl]
JMH Offline

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Aurora, Illinois

Google search horseshoe meadows recreation area which is around 10,000 ft. and can be reached by turning off the same road that heads from lone pine to Whitney.

A second choice at 11,600 feet is the "locked gate" where the white mountain trail starts. The disadvantage here is that it is up by Bishop and it is a longish drive on an older ruff dirt road.

Those are the 2 best that i have found. I'm interested to see if anyone has any better ones.


#50747 - 07/10/17 12:39 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Ruslvmusl]
Steve C Offline

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7075
Loc: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted By: Ruslvmusl
not optimistic to sleep at Whitney Portal night before our climb, any other HIGH elevation (=>8kFT) camp sites near by that dont require a permit?

Rus: see this:

Backpacker and Walk-in camp sites and locations at Whitney Portal: Sleeping in your car at Whitney Portal

#50757 - 07/10/17 03:01 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
leondelmonte Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 2
Loc: CA
a friend and I climbed on sat july 8th
for gear needed, I would recomend
1. crampons or spikes (microspikes), the snow sections are very long and there are many, you will use them.
2. axe
3. water shoes, there are many, and I mean many water crossings that will go above your ankles, even up to your knees
4. a good flashlight to see farther just in case it takes longer to descend
5. water proof pants for glassing down the chutes or any other steep part with snow.

so we started at 4am, temperatures were nice, didnt really need a jacket until we got to the top of the chutes, it got a little windy there for a bit, which made me pull out my windbreaker.
there is a stream in the first few miles which will be knee high, we had read about it, so we had water shoes, there were plenty more sections where the water shoes came in handy.
I dont know all the sections names but all I can say is that at about mile 4 or 5, we were walking mostly on snow up to the chutes or the switchbacks sections. walking on the snow so long with crampons made our shoes wet, and socks too. A few pairs of socks are recommended to change from wet to dry.
this was our first time up whitney, so we were pretty much looking up and following the herd.
when we came up to either climbing the chute or doing the switchbacks, we heard the chute was the way to go, and so we went.
for me it was a 2hr battle up the chute, my bud took 2.5 hrs up it.
it was not easy, but we made it. the crampons came in very helpful here.
we saw many people slidding down the hill in this sections.
to make it short, we made it up, and on the way down we got a bit lost, so it took us longer to get down
it got dark and we had a bit of trouble finding the trail back.
we didnt glassade down any of the snow sections because we didnt have water proof pants and didnt want to get wet so it took us a bit longer to get down. For us it was a very long and strenuous day, but we made it.

#50758 - 07/10/17 03:21 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: leondelmonte]
HE_i Offline

Registered: 06/30/17
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Thanks leondelmonte for the detailed info. Me and my friend too will be our first time this weekend. We prepared for it mentally and physically by doing multiple hikes in different condition at Sierras and Yosemite.

Your tips helps a lot!

#50762 - 07/10/17 04:39 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: HE_i]
leondelmonte Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 2
Loc: CA
I forgot to mention, I didnt pay attention, and went to the portal expecting to see a ranger station to pick up my permits, and WRONG!!

the place where you pick up the permits is in LONE PINE, on the 395, at the visitor's center.
I had to drive back to town to get them, also gave me an excuse to pick up more beer.

#50786 - 07/10/17 10:09 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
M&M Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 1
Loc: CA
Hi all!

I want to thank everyone who posted here--without your information, I don't think we could have made it. You have provided more and if not better information than the rangers! I want to give back by posting our experience.

We did a two day hike. Day one we started at 8am, reached Consultation Lake Camp by 3pm. We took many breaks due to the high heat (I would def go earlier to avoid the heat), the sun was blazing! We spotted a lovely deer strolling on the trail, too, and she was standing super close to us. There were several water crossings.

We had to change to trail runners for two of them--I'm 5'2" and the first big water crossing was up to my knees, due to the snow melt from the heat. The next big water crossing was to my mid calf. the mosquitoes were hungry!! Be very careful and use bug spray! I am still recovering from them, they bit me through my long sleeve shirt and long pants. on the way up, we talked to many hikers who were coming down the trail. About 70% of them turned around at the chute and about 30% made to the top. Out of the 30% who made it, most of them used the chute. There was a group of men who used the switchbacks and they seemed very happy.

Once reached camp, my fiance and I practiced self arrest and glissading at the snow patches. At night, the sky was very cloudy, but the camp site was gorgeous. We camped by the water and there was one lonely frog who sang so loudly the entire night. Sadly we couldn't see the stars due to the clouds. It rained a lot during the night and the strong wind shook our tent violently. We were worried about the next day's climb.

Woke up at 4 am to check weather again, the sky was clearing up so we decided to go. a group of 6 of us, we all had ice axes and crampons, left camp at 4:45am. Once we were on the trail, we decided to take the chute up. None of us were experienced with ice axes nor crampons. Needless to say, we were all very cautious and careful. I made sure that I kicked each step at least twice with my crampons and really jammed my ice axe in the snow before taking each step. Toward the end, it gets very very steep, do not look down! Take your time! there were 6 people next to our group that were only on their micro-spikes and hiking sticks, and they made the chute; I was amazed by them. From what I saw, the switchbacks were covered by snow but the mid and upper part were snow free. There was a group of 6 girls took the switchbacks up and down and they did just fine.

Once the chute was over, I got a hiker's high! I was going fast toward the summit. But oh boy, that was the longest 2 miles in my life! but the view was breathtaking. I wish my camera did its justice. Some of our team members started to feel the altitude so they slowed down, which was very smart of them--I saw a guy suffering from major altitude sickness at the top frown Going slowly and take your time in high altitude is key. We only spent 5 minutes at the summit because the clouds were rolling in. Soon, it started to snow, so we started to descend. We got lost at first when descending, so we spent quite some time scrambling on rocks and traversing (Thanks, Olancha peak for the training). Finally we got on the main trail and reached back at the Trail Crest.

Glissading scared the air out of me at first, because I have never done it. The girl went before us cried and was yelling due to being scared and that made me want to take the switchbacks instead. But eventually I made myself do it. There was a 6 or 7 feet drop before the chute starts so grab on your ice axe when jumping if you are short like me. Once started I went really really slowly. I really dug my ice axe in! There was two rocks on the way, make sure you stop yourself and go to their right. Although super slowly, I did glissade all the way to the bottom. I was freezing because so much snow got into my shirt and pants, and my body was shaking. There was no sun so it was very cold, as well. We hurried back to the tent and it took me a while to warm back up. Almost at 4pm, we started descending, no shoe changing this time and finally reached our car by 7:45pm.

That was definitely one rewarding hike! We have done many hikes in the sierras but none was like Mt Whitney that left me feeling so grateful. Hope this post can help a little bit.

Happy trails, everyone! laugh

#50792 - 07/11/17 12:24 AM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Steve C Offline

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7075
Loc: Fresno, CA
Pictures from Erik Ringnes' trip report
He shared his photo album:
This is the first major stream crossing. In the morning it can be crossed on the rocks. Afternoon, flows are much higher, rocks are submerged.

People can skip this crossing by taking the Old Trail. It joins this trail just 20 paces from the last hiker in this picture.

Here is Erik's picture of the over-used glissade trench / half-pipe / super-chute / bobsled route. People have been injured using this, lost ice axes, there are rocks exposed along the way. Don't use it unless you know how to keep your speed TO A MINIMUM using an ice axe. Make or Take a new slide course!!!

#50808 - 07/11/17 01:09 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Benc Offline

Registered: 03/18/17
Posts: 14
Loc: Socal
On the 14th do you think microspikes and trekking poles will be adequate to safely ascend and descend the switchbacks?

#50811 - 07/11/17 01:32 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Benc]
Steve C Offline

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7075
Loc: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted By: Benc
On the 14th do you think microspikes and trekking poles will be adequate to safely ascend and descend the switchbacks?

Read the trip reports from others here and in the Trip Reports forum. It all depends on how comfortable you are on steep snow slopes with microspikes.

#50815 - 07/11/17 03:56 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
csquared Offline

Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 2
Loc: San Diego, CA
Permit date: July 8-9, 2017
Temperature throughout hike: High of 70s, low of 50s
Starting pack weight: 45 lbs
Campsite: Trail Camp
Time of departure from Whitney Portal: 4:05am
Time of arrival to Trail Camp: 11:20am
Time of departure from Trail Camp: 4:35am
Time of arrival to Trail Crest via the chute: 7:50am
Time of arrival to the summit: 11:10am
Time when arrived back to Trail Camp to pack up: 3pm
Time of departure from Trail Camp to Whitney Portal: 4pm
Time of arrival to Whitney Portal: 8:50pm

We started off at Whitney Portal (where we camped the night before) at about 4am. The first part of the hike just includes a whole lot of switchbacks. There are maybe about 8 river/water crossings, but the second one is the hardest (maybe about 1/3 of a mile from Whitney Portal). The water is freezing, you will get wet, and the current can be a bit strong. Use your trekking poles!

Side note: I've always just walked into the water with my boots and socks on, and have never gotten a blister from wet feet. This is my 5th 20+ mile hike with wet shoes/socks and I've never gotten blisters, it'll just feel cold and a little squishy for a bit.

The majority of the hike is pretty straight forward. Clearly marked signs. The incline was pretty gradual. Many parts are quite rocky, so make sure you have good hiking shoes on (preferable with ankle support). Right before you reach Trail Camp, you will need to cross a few snow fields. We were totally find with just our trekking poles and boots (no crampons or micro-spikes needed here).

Trail Camp isn't as bad as what everyone says. We were there on a weekend, and we weren't really bothered with the noise. We found two great campsites right next to each other for our group. Sadly it is true that there were wag bags left everywhere, so it did smell a little in certain places. But there's a great water source there!

We decided to climb up the chute the next morning instead of taking the switchbacks because most of the lower part of the switchbacks were still covered in snow. So you had to climb up part of the chute anyway. Plus, it took some people about 6-7 hours to get up on the chute.. no thanks! However, if you decide to go up the chute, ice axes and crampons are a MUST. You can easily rent them in town for pretty cheap, but you MUST HAVE THEM. I also recommend to start as early as you can - like 2am or 3am because the later you wait, the slushier the snow will get from the warmth and it will be much more difficult going up the steep parts (max incline of 39 degrees).

Once you get to the top of the chute, it's the most amazing feeling ever. That was probably the hardest part of the hike! But it ain't over yet! It's another 1.9 miles to the summit, and it's probably the hardest/longest 1.9 miles of my life. The trail just kept going and we were definitely feeling the altitude here. We barely spent 10 minutes up top and had to descend immediately because it was starting to sleet and we just felt sick.

We also took the chute down, which was super scary, but also really exciting and fun. It only took us maybe 20 minutes to get down? Seriously, make sure you know how to glissade down with an ice axe.

Helpful tips:
- Arrive a day early and DRIVE to Horseshoe Meadows (about 30 miles/~1 hour drive from Whitney Portal) to acclimate. The elevation there is 10,000'. You can hike around there too.
- Bring mosquito spray! They were everywhere and you cannot escape them.
- Bring a rain jacket/outer shell. The weather truly is unpredictable up in the mountains.
- When setting up camp, if you decide to leave your belongings on summit day, make sure you leave your tent opened! Marmots and chipmunks will chew through anything if they smell food. However, if you leave your tent unzipped, they will just come in, sniff around, realize that there's nothing there for them and will leave your stuff alone.
- Bring an extra WAG bag or two - yes, you will need to pack your poop out. Or just take Imodium!
- Make sure you hydrate and eat constantly! Bring ibuprofen. Energy/caffeine chews or Bloks were super helpful.

#50830 - 07/11/17 09:00 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: Steve C]
Gma Offline

Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 2
Loc: CA
Hello everyone, I checked this forum multiple times a day before I went up and was so grateful for the updates. Because conditions were changing quickly I had no expections of summitimg I just planned on enjoying a beautiful day hiking. I have summitted twice before but conditions were clear. I had only used micro spikes once before this trip, but am a very prepared and sturdy hiker.

This is alittle breakdown of my hike, Friday night camped at Whitney portal
Saturday picked up permit for Sunday, then hung around portal until 6:00 PM,
Then hiked a bit passed Lone Pine lake before permit area where I slept until 3:00 a.m.
I hit the trail by 3:15 a.m. Water was high at outpost camp so I decided to change to sandals which I'm grateful I did. I hiked in them through many water crossing that would have had my feet drenched.

I put boots back on right before snow to trail camp. The trail was not easy to follow in all sections and a few times me and a few others got a bit confused. I used micro spikes and poles and felt confident. By the time I had reached trail camp i had met a few people along the way. We all kind of passed off and on the trail, encouraging each other. I continued on past Trail Camp up towards the chute. I did not feel comfortable trying to get to cables on switchbacks so went up the chute. (Tough but so amazing) I want to add that climbing out of the snow up the rock to trail crest was NOT EASY. 1.9 miles to summit always is harsh but totally worth it.

Arrived on top at 11:20 a.m. And it's was snowing. Started down at 12:00 p.m. I chose to glissade down and just as climbing out of snow to rock was hard, getting back down to it was even worse. Glissading was scary at first but after I got the hang of how to do it I had a great time. I used micro spikes and my poles(shortened all the way). I chose to leave my boots on for water crossings the whole way down. I was back at portal around 5:30p.m. (I took old trail both up and down)I'm a strong believer in taking your time to look around and slow and steady wins the race. I had an amazing day and met some truly wonderful humans along the way.

#50887 - 07/13/17 12:04 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: VagrantProfile]
highsierramike Offline

Registered: 07/06/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Fresno, CA
Successful summit, Tuesday July 11th!!! Amazing trip/experience!!!

My son and I (and his buddy) hiked (with 35 pound packs) up to Trail Camp on Monday, July 10th. We spent the night at Trail Camp and summitted on Tuesday July 11th. After summitting, we hiked back down to Trail Camp, packed up our gear, and trekked back down to the Portal.

Our Schedule:

Saturday (7/8):

Drove from Fresno to Whitney Portal. Camped at Whitney Portal campground. Checked out Portal Store.

HUUUUGE shout out to Doug at the Portal Store. Super friendly, and offered invaluable advice!!!

Sunday (7/9):

On the advice of Doug, took it easy. Took a drive up to Horseshoe Meadows (10,000 ft), and spent some time exploring the high country to acclimate to elevation.

Monday (7/10):

Hit the trail at about 8:00 am. Again, on the advice of Doug, we kept a pace of about a mile an hour. Arrived at Trail Camp at about 3:00 p.m. (This was a great pace for us. We experienced no problems with elevation and felt great (surprisingly) after arriving at Trail Camp.)

Tuesday (7/11):

Hit trail at about 8:00 a.m. Arrived at Summit at 12:30. Spent about an hour at the summit. Hiked back down to Trail Camp and ate lunch. We were planning on spending two nights at Trail Camp, but we made a last minute decision to hike back down to the Portal! We left Trail Camp at about 6:00 p.m., and arrived at the Portal at about 8:45 pm!!

Trip Details/Trail Conditions:

We did NOT use either crampons or an ice axe. However, I would NOT recommend doing the trail without Trekking Poles. There are parts of the trail that would be really difficult without them.

We took the Old Trail, which allows you to avoid a fairly substantial water crossing. It is impossible to miss if you wish to take this route. The old trail begins at the top of the driving loop between the waterfall and huge boulder. It is also impossible to miss where the old train connects with the main trail going this way. I talked to people that took the new trail up, and they had no problems crossing. But, when we got down (at 9:00 p.m), the water level was really high. They ended up following us down the old trail.

The trail up to Outpost Camp is in great condition. There is really only one part of the trail that is flooded. This is right before Outpost Camp. My son was able to get by without getting wet. I just took my shoes off and walked through. It’s only about 100 ft. or so.
The trail from Outpost to Trail Camp is also in great condition. There are a few places where you have to trek through snow, but it is a relatively easy walk. The snow is pretty well compacted from all the hikers and the route is easy to follow.

The hike from Trail Camp to Trail Crest is without a doubt the most challenging part of the hike. We opted for the switchbacks. (This was recommended by Doug at the Portal Store and a Ranger at Trail Camp. Coincidentally, there was a group that went up the chute. We literally arrived at Trail Crest at the exact same time. Going up the chute seemed to require more energy.) There are about 4 portions of the switchbacks that are covered in snow. It is easy to see where the trail goes. I would have worn crampons here if I had them, but did not feel uneasy going without them. However, I would not have been too comfortable going without trekking poles. You do have to trek up some snow to get from Trail Camp to the switchbacks. You will see snow tracks leading up to them. Follow the tracks, and you will hit the switchbacks.

Trail Crest to summit was an awesome hike. Take it slow, and you’ll make it. The last bit of the trail (right before summit) is covered in snow. There is an “alternate” path that hikers are taking. Also pretty easy to follow, and the trail is marked.

Overall, it was an amazing experience. We met a ton of great people (David from Tennessee, the Reedley College crew, and others….) on the trail. Take your time and be safe!!!

I’ll post a few photos soon.

Stevec edit: Moved this post the the Current Conditions thread. Posting pictures: See the picture gallery for instructions.

#50896 - 07/13/17 02:27 PM Re: Current Conditions: Mt Whitney Trail [Re: highsierramike]
drdrew Offline

Registered: 07/12/17
Posts: 3
Loc: California
Thanks for the post HighSierraMike! Can you tell me, at the top of the switch backs, are the cables still under snow?

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