Originally Posted By: wbtravis
SN,

I show you our future in the European example and you ignore it. Please do not characterize my position as one of now. I look at Europe and see the future...and it ain't pretty.

Tell me where I am wrong about what is currently going on in Europe. You know the Europeans are so forward looking on this stuff. You might be able to pick up a solar farm cheap shortly, all you will need to do is operate at a profit with no subsidy. Are you interested?

WBT, I read your links regarding Europe.

The first one came from a global warming denial site making a big deal about a 1-week stall out in solar and wind energy in Germany in December. Is that a surprise to you? A December storm in Germany creates a week of bad weather for solar and wind energy? Solar and wind need massive energy storage in order to really phase out fossil fuels - that's the last piece of the research puzzle and it will be solved. The other energy sectors are filling in the gaps until that happens and solar installations take over more of the market share. It's part of the transition process.

Your second and third links show that demand for coal, in particular the cheap and dirty lignite coal, is increasing. This supports the need to move faster to bring cleaner energies online.

As to the overall state of renewable energy in Europe, it's nice that you're concerned about the Europeans, but they're booming and growing faster than predicted. Subsidies vary from country to country and keep changing, but production is up dramatically everywhere.

Here are some links to reports on the state of the solar and renewable energy market in Europe.

Solar Energy in the European Union
Renewable_energy_in_the_European_Union
Global Market Outlook for 2013-17

Here's a really detailed report on the Global Future of Renewable Energy using scenarios developed by Exxon Mobil, BP, the International Energy Agency, Greenpeace, and others going out to 2050. Wide range of projections falling exactly like you'd think with Exxon pessimistic and Greenpeace the most optimistic. The middle ground is probably what will happen, which is a lot of growth for renewable energy.

REN21 Renewables Global Futures Report (GFR)

Here's Shell Oil Predictions using a range of scearios. Lots of interesting info in here. "By 2070, the passenger road market could be nearly oil-free and towards the end of the century an extensive hydrogen infrastructure rollout displaces oil demand for long haul and heavy loads. By this time, electricity and hydrogen may dominate, and affordable, plug-in, hybrid hydrogen vehicles offer the ultimate in flexibility and efficiency."

CNN Money
There are more solar energy workers in Texas than there are ranchers. In California, they outnumber actors, and nationwide, America has more solar workers than coal miners.

edited to add more links.

Last edited by SierraNevada; 01/20/14 05:40 PM.